Dallas - II

[Al_U_Card]

My apologies.

 

I am used to playing mostly pick-up partnerships where I always try to give pard a Black or White choice if I can. When its 70% gray, I just get into too much trouble and I have enough bad results already thank you. For me it was clear, at least, even if it might make the hand "more difficult" to bid scientifically.

 

But at least with the splinter we would never have found 6NT....... :P

[bid_em_up]

West is 0% to blame.  EAST should SPLINTER in H, as Jacoby is used as a BALANCED forcing raise.

That is simply an untrue statement. There is no other way to put it. Jacoby does not deny shortness and it never has.

You can't seriously believe that, can you? Ok, maybe you do, but....seriously

 

"JACOBY 2NT - Updated

With the advent of limit raises a need for a forcing raise resurfaced. Since there was rarely a need to play in 3NT when we had a 9+ card fit in a Major, Oswald Jacoby suggested using a jump to 2NT after Partner's opening 1H/1S (without an intervening bid) to show 4 card support with opening bid strength in a balanced hand."

 

The idea was that you already had splinter bids to show the values in responders hand that contained shortness, and why opener shows his shortness as a response (because responder is known to be balanced). You may choose to play it as containing a stiff or void, but to assert that it "never" has denied shortness is absolutely false.

[pclayton]

West is 0% to blame.  EAST should SPLINTER in H, as Jacoby is used as a BALANCED forcing raise.

That is simply an untrue statement. There is no other way to put it. Jacoby does not deny shortness and it never has.

You can't seriously believe that, can you? Ok, maybe you do, but....seriously

 

"JACOBY 2NT - Updated

With the advent of limit raises a need for a forcing raise resurfaced. Since there was rarely a need to play in 3NT when we had a 9+ card fit in a Major, Oswald Jacoby suggested using a jump to 2NT after Partner's opening 1H/1S (without an intervening bid) to show 4 card support with opening bid strength in a balanced hand."

Yes, I think I remember seeing this excerpt from a 1952 Harper's Bazaar next to an ad for bomb shelters and a picture of the 1953 Nash.

[bid_em_up]

West is 0% to blame.  EAST should SPLINTER in H, as Jacoby is used as a BALANCED forcing raise.

That is simply an untrue statement. There is no other way to put it. Jacoby does not deny shortness and it never has.

You can't seriously believe that, can you? Ok, maybe you do, but....seriously

 

"JACOBY 2NT - Updated

With the advent of limit raises a need for a forcing raise resurfaced. Since there was rarely a need to play in 3NT when we had a 9+ card fit in a Major, Oswald Jacoby suggested using a jump to 2NT after Partner's opening 1H/1S (without an intervening bid) to show 4 card support with opening bid strength in a balanced hand."

Yes, I think I remember seeing this excerpt from a 1952 Harper's Bazaar next to an ad for bomb shelters and a picture of the 1953 Nash.

Well, if it was good enough for Ozzy.....then who am I to mess with it? :lol:

[han]

Is this a pick-up partnership Phil? I'm not going to assign blame, there is just too much wrong with this auction:

 

1. You are playing standard Jacoby 2NT.

 

2. East wasn't able to splinter over 3C. (not splintering directly seems right)

 

3. East showed the heart ace or king, but had shortness.

 

4. The known hand took control by bidding blackwood. Even worse, West then bid 6NT without knowing much about east's hand, which is both wrong and just wrong.

 

 

Phil says:

 

Here's the real issue. The keycard bidder is in control of the auction. When 5♥ is doubled, does pass (or redouble) transfer control to responder?

 

This is not the real issue at all! All this talk about captaincy is going to steer you away from the real issues (in my humble opinion, with due respect, etc.).

[pclayton]

Is this a pick-up partnership Phil? I'm not going to assign blame, there is just too much wrong with this auction:

 

1. You are playing standard Jacoby 2NT.

 

2. East wasn't able to splinter over 3C. (not splintering directly seems right)

 

3. East showed the heart ace or king, but had shortness.

 

4. The known hand took control by bidding blackwood. Even worse, West then bid 6NT without knowing much about east's hand, which is both wrong and just wrong.

 

 

Phil says:

 

Here's the real issue. The keycard bidder is in control of the auction. When 5♥ is doubled, does pass (or redouble) transfer control to responder?

 

This is not the real issue at all! All this talk about captaincy is going to steer you away from the real issues (in my humble opinion, with due respect, etc.).

Brian and I have been playing about 3 years. Yet, we have rather ill-defined agreements. :D

 

Put it this way, if I can't get him to play anything other than crappy old Jacoby, how am I ever going to get his attention about a situation as subtle as a doubled key card auction? :P

 

He did agree that 4♥ would be a splinter over 3♣, but hadn't considered it at the time.

 

No respect needed (or earned). :P

[luke warm]

i agree with gerben, the blame goes to the 2nt bid (iow, the system)... i'm not talking about whether or not it can contain shortness, but on why there's no system bid for 12-15 with a splinter...