comments on bidding please

[sceptic]

[hv=d=n&v=e&n=sqj9654hkj2dqt8ca&w=st7ha9743dk3cqjt3&e=s83hq865dj52ck972&s=sak2htda9764c8654]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     1♠    Pass  3♥

 Pass  3♠    Pass  4♦

 Pass  4NT   Pass  5♦

 Pass  5♥    Pass  6♠

 Pass  Pass  Pass  

[the saint]

My problem is with the 4NT bid. The auction has told you (assuming 3H was a mini splinter) that North's KJx in the suit is not working. As a result you need to find a second round diamond control with S. For a hand that has mini-splintered, there aren't enough controls in the deck - you need AK in both Diamonds and Hearts for slam to be good, and that is too strong a hand to have mini-splintered. North should realise he only has a working 9 count and sign-off with 4S.

[Wackojack]

1♠ OK

3♥ What is this? Not strong or weak JS. Presumably meant as a splinter. Even so, a splinter is not suitable as it should be supporting a 4-card raise.

3♠ Assuming you took 3♥ as a splinter this is the correct bid since a singleton heart devalues your hand.

4♦ Partner has discouraged and not cue bid 4♣ or 4♦ which either means min opening or no control in the minors. So you should be signing off in 4♠.

4NT You should assume that partner is interested in slam and could have ♠AKxx ♥x ♦ AKx(xx) ♣ xxx(x). You can find out about the ♠AK and ♦A by bidding 4NT, but can you be confident that partner has the ♦K? Alternatively you could be thinking that partner has the singleton ♥A also. Then keeping your diamond losers to 1 is a fair bet. So 4NT although pushy is OK.

5♦ 3

5♥ Why would you want to know if partner has the ♠Q when you have it yourself? I am beginning to think that you took 3♥ as a strong jump shift, and the subsequent 4♦ to show a red 2 suiter. So quite frankly you have lost me.

6♠ I don't even begin to understand.

 

So all-in-all a comedy of errors.

 

How should the bidding go?

If you have no specific system agreements 1♠-2♦-2♠-4♠ looks fine to me. In 2/1 (as you know I am new to 2/1) I believe 1♠-1NT-2♠-4♠ to be correct.

[P_Marlowe]

3H?

 

If it is a splinter, bid 4S, you have wasted values in

hearts and if you take away the hearts, a minimum

opening, 3S is an overbid showing willingness to

cooperate.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: I contemplated Mini-Splinter, but usually a Mini Splinter

shows either 8 or 6 Loosers, if it was a Mini Splinter 3S is ok,

but 4D is an overbid.

[luke warm]

3H is not a bid i could make, even if north understood it as a splinter... i'd need a 4th trump and a guarantee it wouldn't be misunderstood... i think 2D is good enough.. then over 2S, just bid 4S

 

even so, after the 3H splinter, the 3S bid should warn you from continuing.. i don't think the south hand warrants a slam invitational 4D

[sceptic]

I bid the splinter 3 hearts and I took3 spades as stronger than 4 spades so I cue bid my diamond showing no club controls, after the 4NT and then Q ask, the fact that pard had no wasted values in hearts (my assumption as he seemed interested in slam) my real question to myself was he was looking for grand and I could not give it, so I stopped in 6spades

 

on the subject is AKx not as good as a 4 card suit ?

 

if you think my logic here is crap please feel free to tell me as I am not 100% sure yet I bid crap, but I would like to understand if I am guilty of crap bidding

[sceptic]

think 2D is good enough

 

do you really think the diamond suit is good enough when I can support pards major as a priority

[P_Marlowe]

I bid the splinter 3 hearts and I took3 spades as stronger than 4 spades so I cue bid my diamond showing no club controls, after the 4NT and then Q ask, the fact that pard had no wasted values in hearts (my assumption as he seemed interested in slam) my real question to myself was he was looking for grand and I could not give it, so I stopped in 6spades

 

on the subject is AKx not as good as a 4 card suit ?

 

if you think my logic here is crap please feel free to tell me as I am not 100% sure yet I bid crap, but I would like to understand if I am guilty of crap bidding

Hi,

 

it is a matter of partnership agreement, if

a splinter bid shows 4 card support,

it is a matter of partnership agreement / style

if one should 2D or 3H.

 

Since you were south, you did nothing

wrong, 3S is stronger than 4S, 4D shows

the control.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[luke warm]

think 2D is good enough

 

do you really think the diamond suit is good enough when I can support pards major as a priority

it depends on whether or not you judge the hand to be game going... i'd prefer a 4th spade, but i probably have 4 tricks in my own hand... i think i'd insist on 4s here

[Mr. Dodgy]

I was North

 

It's the first time I've played with Wayne and we didn't discuss a lot.

 

The problem started with 3♥ - I took this as old-fashioned SJS: 16+/5+♥s.

 

I'm game-forced so decide to show my extra ♠ before supporting ♥s.

 

Then comes 4♦...and my hand seems to keep getting better. Hence 4NT. More a suggestion to carry on than seeking any particular information. I was fairly intent on bidding 5♥ - finally showing my 'support' - if possible after any response. Yes, this might be interpreted as queen-asking (if I had known that we had agreed a suit) but it wouldn't be the first time I've 'asked' in order to sign-off at 5♠ ;)

 

Personally, I'd probably just bid 4♠ immediately as responder.

 

 

Justin

[sceptic]

I am Guilty of not discussing enough with p first I think and making assumptions

[Mr. Dodgy]

I do like your logic though :-) AKx is sweet. I just don't play minisplinters lol

[P_Marlowe]

I was North

 

It's the first time I've played with Wayne and we didn't discuss a lot.

 

The problem started with 3♥ - I took this as old-fashioned SJS: 16+/5+♥s.

 

I'm game-forced so decide to show my extra ♠ before supporting ♥s.

 

Then comes 4♦...and my hand seems to keep getting better. Hence 4NT. More a suggestion to carry on than seeking any particular information. I was fairly intent on bidding 5♥ - finally showing my 'support' - if possible after any response. Yes, this might be interpreted as queen-asking (if I had known that we had agreed a suit) but it wouldn't be the first time I've 'asked' in order to sign-off at 5♠  ;)

 

Personally, I'd probably just bid 4♠ immediately as responder.

 

 

Justin

Hi,

 

assuming 3H as SJS, I prefer 4H to 3S, 3S is just

a waiting move, ... you will have to bid 3S also

in cases you dont have a real good alternative,

e.g. min. opener, single hearts and only mixed

values in the minors.

 

If you really like your hand you could bid 5H, but

you have a min. opener, ... with heart support yes,

but still min.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: As the disccussion showed, neither of you did really

stupid things, you just had a misunderstanding regarding

the meaning of 3H, thats all, ... hopefully you enjoyed the

session anyway.

[civill]

My problem is with the 4NT bid. The auction has told you (assuming 3H was a mini splinter) that North's KJx in the suit is not working. As a result you need to find a second round diamond control with S. For a hand that has mini-splintered, there aren't enough controls in the deck - you need AK in both Diamonds and Hearts for slam to be good, and that is too strong a hand to have mini-splintered. North should realise he only has a working 9 count and sign-off with 4S.

4NT should be replaced by 4♥ or 4♠, because that the slam is obvious weak for trump suit or sid esuit controls,even if only basing on bid sequence.