Controversial hand

[mikeh]

 

I understand now why Mike said it was a losers idea to pass, at MPs passing 4♠ seems to be certainly a bad idea.

 

Sorry I'm just too used to IMP problems, my apologies for not noticing it was MPs, everything I said holds for IMPs.

 

I also missed that it was mps :lol:

 

So, I am sorry, Luis, but everything I said applied to imps as well: I guess we have to agree to diasgree on this one. And as for the double gaining only 5 imps (+300 v +100): I don't know about you, but I cannot afford to allow the opps to steal 5 imps on this kind of board very often :lol:

[luis]

 

I understand now why Mike said it was a losers idea to pass, at MPs passing 4♠ seems to be certainly a bad idea.

 

Sorry I'm just too used to IMP problems, my apologies for not noticing it was MPs, everything I said holds for IMPs.

 

I also missed that it was mps :lol:

 

So, I am sorry, Luis, but everything I said applied to imps as well: I guess we have to agree to diasgree on this one. And as for the double gaining only 5 imps (+300 v +100): I don't know about you, but I cannot afford to allow the opps to steal 5 imps on this kind of board very often :lol:

Yes, we agree to disagree, 5imps are not worth the risk in my opinion, one day the 4♠ bidder will have 8 or 9 tricks in his own hand and you will go for 1880 or something like that :-)

 

Luis

[whereagles]

5 imps are not worth the risk in my opinion, one day the 4♠ bidder will have 8 or 9 tricks in his own hand and you will go for 1880 or something like that :-)

Actually, I also missed the point it was MPs.

 

At MPs you might not wish to double, on grounds that if they go down you'll get a good score anyway, while if they make it, it's a rock-bottom.

 

At IMPs it's ok to risk the occasional 4♠ X just made (couple imps lost), to try and get a substantial set (loads imps) if opps are overbidding.

 

Of course, it may happen they redouble and you're kinda in trouble, but they would never redouble if you double with conviction :lol:

[luis]

5 imps are not worth the risk in my opinion, one day the 4♠ bidder will have 8 or 9 tricks in his own hand and you will go for 1880 or something like that :-)

Actually, I also missed the point it was MPs.

 

At MPs you might not wish to double, on grounds that if they go down you'll get a good score anyway, while if they make it, it's a rock-bottom.

 

At IMPs it's ok to risk the occasional 4♠ X just made (couple imps lost), to try and get a substantial set (loads imps) if opps are overbidding.

 

Of course, it may happen they redouble and you're kinda in trouble, but they would never redouble if you double with conviction :lol:

Substantial what?

You have a math problems

 

At Imps

 

If double is wrong

from 420 to 590 lose 5 imps

from 450 to 690 lose 6 imps

and if they redouble you lose a zillion imps

 

If double is wrigth

From 50 to 100 you win 2 imps

From 100 to 300 you win 5 imps

 

And if you think 500 is possible here I strongly doubt it.

 

Substantial win of imps? What?

[whereagles]

Oh they're NV. Well, then forget it. I thought they were vuln.

[luis]

Oh they're NV. Well, then forget it. I thought they were vuln.

That is why a redouble can be around the corner being NV vs V if you are quite sure that 4♠ makes or goes down 1 in the worst scenario a redouble is very interesting, in your worst scenario you convert -100 in -200 and in your best scenario you get a bunch of imps.

[han]

One thing about it being MPs is that partner may not have a great 2♦ bid. Suppose partner has KQJTxxx and out, might he not be adventurous at MPs? Maybe he would (shouldn't) be at these colours, but my point is that it is difficult to rule out pass as a logical alternative. Just pass and tell partner to bid in tempo next time.

 

You got to be kidding Matt, KQJ10xxx and out? I understand that you don't want to make a weak jump overcall with that at these colors (although I would), but in my opinion that's the only alternative to pass. Agreeing that you overcall 2D without defense will help you to bid more hands, but it will hurt your partner on hands like this.

 

If Mark was playing with me then pass is no logical alternative and he can freeely double. If he was playing with you then I guess pass is the normal call. So it depends on their partnership style, which makes this case very difficult.

[han]

And if you think 500 is possible here I strongly doubt it.

 

Why not Luis? Wouldn't you jump to 4S immediately any time you'd want to sac over 4H? Especially at these colors down 3 is a real possibility imo.

[luis]

And if you think 500 is possible here I strongly doubt it.

 

Why not Luis? Wouldn't you jump to 4S immediately any time you'd want to sac over 4H? Especially at these colors down 3 is a real possibility imo.

Doesn't look very likely, pd overcalled 2♦ and passed 4♠, you have nothing in spades, your RHO raised FREELY to 2♠ when he could have passed 2♦, certainly doesn't look like a 500 deal.

[mr1303]

Incidentally, partner is a solid if unspectacular citizen who will have a reasonable hand at these colours. However, you haven't been playing together very long, and don't go in for much science in your bidding style, if any of that helps.