luis Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 I won't post this as a problem because it's not my idea to let everybody go wrong and then say "haha you are all wrong". Amazingly this happened at the local club and it is based on a problem almost identical that appeared in BW last month. Try it as a problem if you want first: [hv=d=e&v=n&s=sjt94ha92dk7643c8]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] East opens 1♥ and West makes a bergen raise showing 7-10 and 4 heart support, over this East jumps to 4NT RKCB and west bids 5♣ showing 1 or 4. East then bids 5♦ asking for the trump queen and West bids 5♥ denying it. The bidding: ----- 1♥3♦ 4NT5♣ 5♦5♥ pass What is your opening lead and why? Assuming the opponents are missing the trump ace and the trump queen you lead a diamond trying to build a diamond trick, and 2 trumps for your side. This is the full deal: [hv=n=sqxxxhxdaxxcxxxxx&w=sk87ht873dqjt5cat&e=saxhkqj54d9ckqj76&s=sjt94ha92dk7643c8]399|300|[/hv] Declarer asked for the trump queen missing 2 aces and holding the queen himself to avoid a singleton club lead that might defeat 5♥ when the club ace is missing or the trump ace is missing and they can get a club ruff. So leading the singleton club, and then ducking a heart to see pd's signal would have worked perfectly to defeat 5♥ while the "normal" diamond lead just destroyed your defensive communications. The interestng questions to debate are:Are there other situations where asking for the queen that you have in your hand can work in your benefit? If it becomes a habit of course pd will have to alert "he has done this with the queen in his hand before". As a defender how do you know which case it is? Luis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 The danger in this approach is if responder has a surprise fifth trump. Now he will show the trump queen even when he lacks it. Also, as you correctly point out there could be disclosure issues if you use such a ploy too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Neat ploy. I also fell for it, and I have no solution to suggest. Some gambits just plain work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted March 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 The danger in this approach is if responder has a surprise fifth trump. Now he will show the trump queen even when he lacks it. Also, as you correctly point out there could be disclosure issues if you use such a ploy too often. Assuming the raise showed exactly 4 cards in trumps the bluff is quite safe. Assume this happened before and is properly alerted, I think you are in a worst position with your lead compared to the pairs that don't ask for the Q. So the question is: Is asking for the Queen when having it (alerted and all) always a good way to improve your chances because you create losing options for the opening leader ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 There are no disclosure issues. You are allowed to make a bid that asks for the trump queen even if you hold it. The bid doesn't say "I don't have the trump queen", it says "Partner, do you have the trump queen?". If the opponents want to assume that the person who asked doesn't have it, that is merely an inference. He merely asked a question. Is it illegal to bid blackwood when holding all the aces unless you alert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 There are no disclosure issues. You are allowed to make a bid that asks for the trump queen even if you hold it. The bid doesn't say "I don't have the trump queen", it says "Partner, do you have the trump queen?". If the opponents want to assume that the person who asked doesn't have it, that is merely an inference. He merely asked a question. Is it illegal to bid blackwood when holding all the aces unless you alert? lol. There is only one trump Q. If you ask your pd if he/she has it, you imply that you don't have it. When you have it, you know your pd doesn't have it. Why asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 What about promising the trump queen on the way to a grand? If a trump isn't led, play the opening leader for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 There are no disclosure issues. You are allowed to make a bid that asks for the trump queen even if you hold it. The bid doesn't say "I don't have the trump queen", it says "Partner, do you have the trump queen?". If the opponents want to assume that the person who asked doesn't have it, that is merely an inference. He merely asked a question. Is it illegal to bid blackwood when holding all the aces unless you alert? lol. There is only one trump Q. If you ask your pd if he/she has it, you imply that you don't have it. When you have it, you know your pd doesn't have it. Why asking?That refers to the bridge issue, not to the alert issue. The point is that you don't have to alert even if partner is known to ask for the trump queen when he holds it. You even said yourself, asking only implies he doesn't have it. If you are wondering why someone who holds it would ask, then you seem not to have read the very first post, or else missed the point of that post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Although only remotely on point, this reminds me of a distinct convention I used to play with a former partner. We played "maybe" game tries. For example, using a simplistic approach, 1S-P-2S-P-3C would be a "maybe" short-suit game try ("maybe" short clubs). Partner was supposed to answer whether he would accept a short suit game try, but no short suit was promised. This was, of course, intended to induce trump leads into AJ9xx or the like. With full disclosure, it was fine. This example is less devious. You simply are asking a question. You are allowed to know the answer. For example, can you not ask for Aces, having all of them, in order to next ask for Kings??? Or, perhaps you are asking, with intention of bidding the slam anyway, to suggest a void? All of this is allowed, and good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 At first sight, East's plot seems 100% legal to me. It's a swindle like any other. Incidently, I'd lead a spade (not that it matters much... hehe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 I won't post this as a problem because it's not my idea to let everybody go wrong and then say "haha you are all wrong".That apparently disqualifies you from becoming BW editor though :P The interestng questions to debate are:Are there other situations where asking for the queen that you have in your hand can work in your benefit? If it becomes a habit of course pd will have to alert "he has done this with the queen in his hand before". As a defender how do you know which case it is?How about: You know you want to play 6, but you want to avoid a trump lead. You ask for the queen, partner will deny it, you settle for 6, and opening leader will refuse to save you from the queen guess with a trump lead? Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Here's another one where asking for the queen can benefit: Convoluted auction. You bid 4NT at some point, and partner's next call seems strange, perhaps even downright weird. The "queen ask" may clue partner in that you intended 4NT as RKCB, allowing partner to correct his confusion with a quantitative placement, if his first bid was wrong per your thinking. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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