Blame asignement

[inquiry]

The original post said 5♣  was a cuebid showing fit, i wonder why people had been discussing alternative meaning.

 

Because this is a discussion forum, people find their own issues to be intersested in. For example, rather or not this clearly appropriate 4♠ opener is even worth an opener or how to continue over 5♣.

 

My view:

5♣ is probably wrong, certainly you do have a cuebid in clubs and slam intentions but what are you going to do next?

 

So what you say is, that if you don't know what your partner is going to do next, you just ignore him?

 

Partner started a cuebid sequence and oviously he wanted to hear a cuebid from opener.

 

I'll help you finding the answer:

AQ 7th opposit his Kxx with all controls will allow the Grand (at least with a finesse)

 

And how is your cue-bid of 5♣ going to find that? Luis (and I) both addressed that issue with if your gambling instincts run that way start with 5NT over 4♠. That will get teh answer about spades.

 

AJ 7th will allow a grand if the trumps are not 3-0 (at least with a finesse)

 

Still gambling? 5NT when find out ♠A only, figure it is AJeight or better at this vul, and gamble as you like.

 

Ace 8th will allow a grand (at least with a finesse)

See answer above Axxxxxx is not a vul preempt. AT-eight might be

 

So how does he find out about the trump ace?

The reponse schedule is fairly ckear, you can eliminate no ♠ honors from the tree. 7 bids show two honor, 6♣ shows Ace or king, 6♦ shows queen. If you want to get fancy, with spades, you can have each bid show a different top honor (or lack of) but 6♣A or K and 6♦ just queen has worked for me. After a one honor GSF, 6D ask for extra extra legnth (as long as diamonds are not trumps).

 

Probably this pair doesn't have any agreements

or voidwood is not agreed and a simple blackwood can't determinate which Ace opener holds.

By starting a cuebid sequence at least, some informations can be collected because:

- the long suit will have 3 of the top 5 (at least 3 HCP) and

- opener will usually have 10 HCP at most and

- any side control weakens the trump suit

- any ♦ values opposit a void may/will be wasted

Openers 5♦ will make the grand less probable, so advancer will settle for 6.

Without side controlls opener will bid 5♠, that can be advanced to 6.

 

This sound like a plan to me that should work with any partner that is willing to cooperate.

 

I am not sure where you are going. Doesn't 6♦ PROMISE a ♦ control? Doesn't it also promise a ♥ control. Why if partner bids 5♦ showing a diamond control will you stop short of grand slam and if parnter bids 6♠ you will bid grand slam?

 

Will partner with, say ♠AQxxxxxx ♥xx ♦-x ♣-xx not bid 5♦ by your scheme? How about ♠AJTxxxxx ♥Kx ♦x ♣xx will he not also cue-bid his diamond control? Here you also settle for 6♠. And give opener the hand ♠QJTxxxxxx ♥Kxx ♦xx ♣void at least here you could use your GSF.

 

6♠ means: I don't care what you want from me. Advancer now has to guess, if opener hold the A♦ (stop in 6) or A♠ the grand is on.

 

Sigh. 6♠ was an answer to a question, the weakest positive answer to the question possible. The question 5♣ asked was we might be off two quick tricks in a red suit, tell me whcih suit you control. The possible answers are"

 

5♠ = neither red suit

5♥/5♦ = this red suit,

ANYTHING ELSE - I control both of them, The anything else starts at 5NT and ends at 6♠. I think (as I said before) the weakest of these anything else bids is 6♠ (Principle of fast arrival), the strongiest is 5NT. This is general prinicples. I leave jumps to show voids, so jump to 6H or 6D would show void and control of other red suit. You can define 6C and 5NT howevver you like, but both are stronger than 6♠. I might suggest that 6C would show both first round controls (one void, other ace), 5NT would show both great spades and control in both suits. A cue-bid by responder is looking for grand with first round control in the bid suit. Having said that, I use 5♣ for a control asking bid.

 

On this hand I would bid 5♥, find the second round heart control, (first step no first or second round control, second step, second round control), then over 6C bid 6H josephine and partner would not be accepting with this hand and would bid 6♠.

 

My view:

BTW: North bid 7♠ to punish pd for his 6♠ bid it is a clear allergic reaction to the 6♠ bid to me.

 

Oviously i don't agree with that statement.

 

Obvioulsy I agree greatly with that statement and Luis's entire post.

 

5♣ was a thoughtless bid perhpas. There is no doubt grand slam will be avoided if openers bids 5♦, but opener was asked a question (and not the right question at that) and he should give the correct answer. If he bids 5♦ and his partner now jumps to 6♠, how is opener to evaluate the usefulness of lack of for his stiff heart, could responder not have a hand where the key is the unshown singleton heart (say the same hand he had but AK9 of spades not A9x). Of course he could.

[jdeegan]

B) Kudos for some most outstanding postings. I really feel like I learned something about the finer points of the game. Of special note imo. was luis's summing up of the prospects for trying for seven, and inquiry's rationale in support of South's bid of six ♠.

 

Blast bids like the 6♠ call often irritate and disappoint partner, but that doesn't make them wrong. All it says is I have enough for six, but we are probably missing something for seven.

 

Notice that warts and all, the actual bidding sequence did land N-S in the correct contract, at least until the Unlucky Expert playing North invented a way to lose with his 7♠ bid.

[toothbrush]

I open 1♠ with this hand.

When you've decided to open 4♠, the jump to 6♠ is the worst thing you can do. A preemptive opener leaves the final choice to his partner, end of discussion. Partner knows what you have, you know NOTHING from partner.

[mikestar]

There must be some hand where South's correct bid is 6♠. Though in most situations I don't advocate Fast Arrival, here I think it is sensible. 6♠ should mean: "I've got enough to gamble the small slam, but the grand scares the crap out of me." You guys can debate wheter South should send this message on this hand.

 

If North wants to fish for a grand (I'd be inclined to, depending on the state of the match) how about the simple, straightforward 5NT over 4♠? Gets you therewhen patner has ♠AQ, keeps you out when he doesn't. Gambling on the side suits when you have three first round controls can easily pay off. A grand off the Ace of trump is gambling on the opponents revoking.

[whereagles]

For the record, I asked a few local experts, whom I would describe as "quite conservative" what would they open on

 

QJTxxxxx

x

AQx

x

 

and all of them opened 4♠. One junior said he would open 1♠(!) because he thought the hand was "too strong"(!!).

[hotShot]

For the record, I asked a few local experts, whom I would describe as "quite conservative" what would they open on

 

 

 

and all of them opened 4♠. One junior said he would open 1♠(!) because he thought the hand was "too strong"(!!).

The question is not: would/could/should you open this 4♠.

It is what does your partner expect you to have for opening 4♠.

 

If your junior opens 4♠ with:

JTxxxxxx

x

Qxx

x

 

Compared to that, the discussed hand is to strong for 4♠.

Partner acts based on his expectation of the hand. If he agreed to "weak" 4 level openings he needs to be stronger to act.

 

Obvously opener here expected partner to hold ♠AK, otherwise (as Ben poited out) he should not bid 6♠, because he has only 2nd round control in ♥.