Bridge leagues

[Sigi_BC84]

I recall there were discussions on splitting BBO.  As far as I recall, the majority does not want e.g. BBO Asia/BBO America/BBO Europe.

And I am so glad that BBO hasn't split so far.

Please don't dramatize this. I'm not talking about splitting up anything.

 

I'm just proposing that for a start, the leagues should be organized according to time zones -- you are free to compete with your team in every league you want to.

 

Think about it: in a league you don't just challenge a team, and if it doesn't work out you're done with it. A league requires that each team has played all other teams at some point. If certain matches are very hard (or impossible) to schedule, the league will come tumbling down on you really quickly...

 

Simple.  Beautiful.  It works.

Appears that we do not see eye to eye on this.

Sorry if I sound offensive.

You don't sound offensive; you rather sound like you're not willing to think this through to the very end (sorry if it's me sounding offensive now). Don't compare the current ladder system to a potential league. These are two different things.

 

--Sigi

[awm]

On the other hand, it's hard enough scheduling two teams; you're not going to get all teams playing at once. So that means different pairs of teams playing the same boards at different times, which is usually a bad idea. Now if I'm on team A, I can't watch the team B vs. C match. And we better hope no one decides to post a tough hand to the forums before some other team has played it...

 

You could always run a league on win/loss (this is how most ladders work) rather than trying to gauge total imps or VPs. This pretty much eliminates the need for playing the same boards.

[pigpenz]

BBO is currently lacking the necessary features to comfortably set up a team league. I have suggested this in some other thread, and we are all patiently awaiting developments. The main problem is that predealing hands in team events is a pain in the neck, and I think that would be necessary to run a fair league.

 

Having a league, or multiple leagues for teams on BBO would be AWESOME.

 

--Sigi

actually it isnt a pain in the but at all....dealmaster pro allows you to make hands hand records etc and then the hands can be uploaded to be played on bbo. I know in the past alot of us have asked for swiss teams on mini kos etc. hope it happens eventually

[Sigi_BC84]

actually it isnt a pain in the but at all....dealmaster pro allows you to make hands hand records etc and then the hands can be uploaded to be played on bbo. I know in the past alot of us have asked for swiss teams on mini kos etc. hope it happens eventually

I certainly know how to computer generate hands and I'd probably even manage to convert them on my own into a format that BBO accepts for predealt hands. It is, however, with the current version of the software, not exactly an easy task to properly upload the hands into a team event. You have do to that within a certain time frame after starting the event, and it's not obvious at all that it is even possible (because you don't get the option of doing it until after starting the event, if I'm not mistaken).

 

That certainly matches my idea of "pain in the butt".

 

--Sigi

[Sigi_BC84]

On the other hand, it's hard enough scheduling two teams; you're not going to get all teams playing at once. So that means different pairs of teams playing the same boards at different times, which is usually a bad idea. Now if I'm on team A, I can't watch the team B vs. C match. And we better hope no one decides to post a tough hand to the forums before some other team has played it...

Naturally if you can't schedule the league in a way so that all matches in a round happen at the same time, the predup idea is worthless. Maybe I should not have brought it up in the first place, but I'm surprised that it draws so much attention.

 

You could always run a league on win/loss (this is how most ladders work) rather than trying to gauge total imps or VPs. This pretty much eliminates the need for playing the same boards.

I'd certainly prefer a more accurate measurement, but I think we should just see which variant works out best and pleases the highest number of people.

 

To me a substantial part of team matches is that you can get everything ranging from a close win to crushing the opponents. If you take that away you're eliminating a part of the fun in my eyes.

 

--Sigi

[andych]

I recall there were discussions on splitting BBO.  As far as I recall, the majority does not want e.g. BBO Asia/BBO America/BBO Europe.

And I am so glad that BBO hasn't split so far.

Please don't dramatize this. I'm not talking about splitting up anything.

 

I'm just proposing that for a start, the leagues should be organized according to time zones -- you are free to compete with your team in every league you want to.

 

Think about it: in a league you don't just challenge a team, and if it doesn't work out you're done with it. A league requires that each team has played all other teams at some point. If certain matches are very hard (or impossible) to schedule, the league will come tumbling down on you really quickly...

 

Simple.  Beautiful.  It works.

Appears that we do not see eye to eye on this.

Sorry if I sound offensive.

You don't sound offensive; you rather sound like you're not willing to think this through to the very end (sorry if it's me sounding offensive now). Don't compare the current ladder system to a potential league. These are two different things.

 

--Sigi

One could use different word, e.g. decompose/divde/separate/etc.

But it means the same thing.

Multiple regional league is differnt with single global league. In the BBO example, one could also play in diff BBO. Yet it is not welcomed at all. It is simply troublesome to compete in multiple league.

 

We are currently competing with teams all over the world in the ladder. It is working. We would also be able to compete with all teams in league format. The key point is 'manage with good will', as posted by others.

 

You could say that playing one team in ladder is not equal to playing all teams in league which is a must. Obviously I agree they are different.

But if you have read the rules quoted, the writer did think to the very end. The adminstrator could grant win by forefiet/lose by forefiet, though cruel. Withdraw match does't apply in league format. It should mean granting a draw.

 

 

BTW if Hue read this, supporting a draw in the current ladder would be great :lol: :lol: . It sounds strange for a draw in a ladder. May have to figure out what it acutally means :lol: :lol:

[csdenmark]

International Bridge League(IBL) was running for more than 1 year last time. It stopped approx. 2 years ago and acc. to Elzbieta's info BBO-Poland is going to make a re-start in a few months.

 

Last time I think 100-200 teams consisting of 4-8 persons were competing. This time I predict it is going to be 300-400 teams. Last time there were paid attention to as well playing skills as regions. This time no doubt.

 

If you are interested - be sure your convention card will be updated - such is mandatory.

 

The flexible set-up is certainly Ray's Bridge Ladder. IBL is a more complex set-up but they fit well together.

 

All are welcome to form a team and register right away. It is all very friendly and serious persons - so no good reason for interested persons to hesitate.

[Al_U_Card]

By regional do they mean by time zone? Teams vs teams in the same time zone would likely alleviate some of the scheduling problems. Eventually, a playdown of adjacent time zonal winners would lead to a final where a mutally disagreable time would have to be found, if possible. It would still be fun to become Champion of the bridge e-world....;-)

[y66]

Hue set up a test league for me to try out admin functions. I'll try to simulate typical events in the life of a ladder league and post a summary of findings in a week or two.

 

Will try to do the same with other league admin tools that have been mentioned here.

[wojela]

Hi

We had more than 200 teams. We hadn't problem with time, teams played saturday and sunday. BBO Team Poland wants to start with leauge in May. Now we create webside.

Regards

Ela Wojciechowska "wojela"

[wojela]

It is a draft of rules internet league. If all will be good after Easter teams will be able to register.

BBO ITL RULES

 

 

 

General rules

Teams

Registration

Team

Competition

Group stage

Promotions and Relegations

Match results and final standings.

Match

The event, lineup procedures.

The result.

Tardiness.

The problems with scheduling/ finishing the match.

Captain responsibilities.

Conventions.

Penalties summary.

Tardiness.

Unfinished matches.

Cheating.

Breaking the rules.

 

 

General rules

 

Bridge Base Polska Team is the organizer of eh BBO Internet Team League, all event will be coordinated at the BBO ITL site : www.bridgebase.pl/league

 

BBO ITL is composed of: Premiership – 2 groups of 10 teams, First Division – 4 groups of 10 teams each, Second Division – 8 groups, number of teams is depending on number of teams registrated.

Competition is going to be played in 3 months series ( 3 series by year) called seasons.

In every season teams from same groups play 2 matches with each other groups members, both matches should be played in one meeting

Matches are 12-boards, no undos, kibitzers allowed silent

No player is allowed to be registered in 2 teams same season and play for 2 different teams same season.

All claims will be examinated and decided by KewIN.

The League will be governed by the Laws of Duplicate Bridge (edition 1997).

 

 

 

Teams

 

Registration

Registration form is available at the BBO ITL Site, at My Team section, to accomplish the registration task it is necessary to fulfil all required formalities.

During the registration there will be pointed the Captain of the team, who next will be representing and performing all duties related to participating the League.

Team

Team is composed of 4 to 12 players, every team must have the Captain

Teams are allowed to remove and add players during the season, but no player is allowed to play in 2 different teams same season. This obligation is saddled with the team and its captain.

The Captain of the team can be replaced during the season but the team must have the Captain in every moment of the competition.

 

 

 

Competition

 

Group stage

 

In every season teams from same groups play 2 matches with each other groups members, both matches should be played in one meeting

Matches are 12-boards, no undos, kibitzers allowed silent

Competition will be proceeded due to calendar available at the BBO ITL Site, but departures from the schedule are allowed with both sides interested agreement and BB Polska Team informed.

Teams should agree the date and time of the match between them and then inform the BB Polska Team.

Every match should have Director , and BB Polska Team coordinator assigned.

Promotions and Relegations

At the end of group stage every 4 lowest placed teams from each group of Premiership and First Division are relegated to the lower division .

Every 2 highest placed teams from First division and Second division are promoted to higher division.

The best 2 teams from Premiership groups proceed to Championship Playoffs.

Playoffs will be composed of semifinals ( between 1st team of 1st group and 2nd team of 2nd group, and 2nd team of 1st group and 1st team of 2nd group) and the final b between defeated teams and the great final between winners.

Playoff matches should be 2 segments 16-boards each.

Premiership and Second Division groups should always contain 10 teams , if there is no way to fulfil this condition , additional teams will be promoted from lower league with lower number groups members preferred.

Second Division groups should always contain the same number of teams , if there is no way to fulfil this condition then the difference between groups must not be greater than one team and the lower number groups should be always larger than higher number ones.

In the case of unexpected situations not described above BB Polska Team reserve the right to make the appropriate decisions concerning division and group qualification.

 

Match results and final standings.

The result of the match is computed as a summary score of 12 boards in IMPs, and recalculated to VP scale.

The final standings is decided by aggregate VP score from all matches. In the tie situation , the immediate match score decides, and if still there is a tie highest IMP score. Whenever there will be a tie after all these rules, the teams will play 4-boards extra-matches until there will be a winner (max 3 times).

In case of withdrawing or excluding the team from the competiotion, all the matches will be annulated ,and the team will automatically consider as a last team in the group.

 

Match

 

The event, lineup procedures.

 

In the agreed time both participating teams players appointed to play first 12-boards segment meet in the chat room started by the captain of lower seed number team ( this team will be considered as a home team for this segment). The exact time of all 4 players of the given team entering the chat room is taken for moment when team is ready to play. The starting time of a match is defined as either the scheduled starting time or the time at which four members of one team are ready to begin play, whichever is later.

The captain of home team has a right to choose opponents pairs placing.

The team loosing after the first 12-board segment is then consider as a home team and we are to repeat the procedure. Although we must follow the rule which forbids playing same pair vs same opponents.

During the one segment there should be no changes in the team, unless there is a emergency caused by technical problems, e.g. disconnection of one of players. If the replacement player was kibitzing before he could enter the game he must get the opponents captain permission.

 

The result.

Match will be acknowledged as completed after captain of first home team sends the results to the BB Polska Team. The results ought to be sent via form page on the BBO ITL Site in the Match Studio section.

The proper results include:

Scores from both segments given in IMPs.

The movie files from both segments.

Delay report if necessary.

Claims if needed.

 

Tardiness.

Arriving late to a match is a discourtesy to your teammates and opponents. The section below describes the penalties for lateness. These penalties may be appealed to the coordinator but are not subject to discussion by the participants. Such discussion can only further delay the match and cause increased penalties. The only appropriate discussion of tardiness is that the team captains should agree on the time that each team was prepared to begin play.

Przewiduje się następujące kary za spóźnienia:

There is no penalty for first 15 minutes of lateness, but in case of permanent tardiness the BB Polska Team reserves the right to penalize offending team.

A penalty of three IMPs per each five minutes, max 18 IMPs.

If a team is over 60 minutes late the matches will be rescheduled and the offending team will be assessed an 18 IMP late penalty for the match. The late team captain is permitted to protest the penalty with exact explanation of tardiness reasons.

A match is expected to be played at the rate of 7 1/2 minutes per board or faster, or one hour and 30 minutes per 12 boards. Complaints of slow play may be made to the director during the match or to GOD in writing when reporting the scores. Kapitanowie mogą zgłaszać zbyt wolną grę przeciwników do koordynatora w czasie meczu lub wraz z wynikami do GOD. No hand shall be started 4 hours after the official start time for the match without specific agreement by both captains (or acting captains should the captain not be available) that the match shall run long.

Substitutes can be used to fill out a table to allow play. A substitute may not be a member of another team in the same league. If a substitute plays twice for one team, he becomes a member of that team and can no longer substitute on other teams.

The problems with scheduling/ finishing the match.

The intent of GOD to hold matches, and every effort will be made to have a match played rather than declared a forfeit. GOD expects full cooperation from all teams in accomplishment of this aim.

On the event a team withdraws during a match, the non-offending team shall be credited with a win and, at the end of the season, be credited with a VP score for the forfeiture being the highest of:

the average VPs scored by the non-offending side

the average VPs conceded by the offending side

22VP.

The team which breaks off 3 matches in the season will be automatically excluded from the League.

 

Generally, when a side requests a fixture to be postponed owing to very

bad weather or for mutual convenience, a new fixture date shall be arranged.

The fact that a side is unable to raise its strongest team for a fixture

would not justify a postponement and if it is not possible to complete

a match by the end of the season rule 8 shall apply.

 

Captain responsibilities.

 

 

Arranging with the other Captains the date and starting time of matches.

Agreement prior to start of play upon the minutes of lateness, if any.

Perform all official team communication with GOD, including reporting of scores (in IMPs), providing movies of the match, appeals, claims of forfeit, requests for modification of team membership or captaincy, and proper advance notice of all matches-dates and official starting time.

Team players supervising over respecting the League Rules and the rules of the BBO community.

 

 

 

 

Conventions.

Best might be anything goes, so no arguments over what is being played. However, all conventions not on PREAPPROVED LIST must be pre-alerted and defences provided in writing to GOD for posting on BBO ITL Site Special carding agreements and treatments must be pre-alerted (UDCA. O/E. etc).

CONVENTION CARDS ARE OBLIGATORY, and are to be filled out completely. If you believe your opponents have not made a good faith effort to completely fill out their convention card, save it and forward it to GOD. If after GOD reviews the convention card, he may request the players involved to elaborate more fully. Failure to do results in expulsion of the offending pair.

 

 

Penalties summary.

 

Tardiness.

A penalty of three IMPs per each five minutes, max 18 IMPs.

Forfeiture penalty as described above in the case of impossibility of completing the match.

Permanent lateness penalty up to 25 VP in season.

 

Unfinished matches.

In the case of impossibility of completing the match, when the parts agreed to break the event , and after that they never come to new appointment , the team finded guilty of this situation will be penalized in forfeiture proportion according to number of boards remainding.

 

Cheating.

The team which will be recognized as cheaters will be immediately excluded from the League.

Breaking the rules.

In all other cases of breaking the rules of our community or clearly offending and disrespecting behaviours which are not mentioned above, the BB Polska Team reserves the right to determine the offending side and impose the penalty.