Defense Signals and Carding

[annebabe]

[hv=n=s64&w=sak1093&e=sj852&s=sq7]399|300|♠[/hv]

 

or

 

[hv=n=s64&w=sak1093&e=sj852&s=sq7]399|300|♠[/hv]

 

South 2NT p 3NT

 

State your carding signals and state how you can cash out the Spade suit. South has rest of tricks.

 

Do you use A=Count, unblock, attitude? K=? Std or udca. Your choice. Just be sure to cash out 5 spades.

[ArcLight]

In general the standard lead against NT contracts with AKxxx is 4th best.

If 3/5 it will be x.

This suit is misisng 2 honors so an unblock doesnt help. AKJTx would be differnt.

 

I don't think you can be sure of cashing out.

 

I would not play K for "Unblock an honor or give count", as that doesnt help you in both cases. If its instead "unblock the Q" it still doesnt work in both cases.

 

Playing A for Attitude works on the second but not the first.

 

(if you play A for Unblock/Count and K for Attitude then switch what I said above)

 

Pard (E) doesnt know you have 5 Spades if you lead the A or K.

[annebabe]

1.) ♠ J852

 

UDCA or STD:    ;) :o J ♠

 

 

2.) ♠ Q 8 2

 

UDCA:    play ♠ 2 :rolleyes:

STD :    play ♠ 8

Edited March 23, 2006 by annebabe

[Free]

I guess in both situations you don't lead the A or K... So no cashing the ♠ suit in the first case imo.

[kenrexford]

On both (obviously) I lead the Ace, which asks for attitude, positive showing the King or Queen. That solves #2.

 

As to #1, partner initially seems likely to play small. However, jettison of the Jack makes sense from two or four, not from three. So, I'd jettison the Jack and hope that partner can contextually figure out that I have Jxxx, not Jx.

 

I have no better solution, myself.

 

To add the rest of the answers, I'd play low for positive acceptance; King is a power lead (honor or count requested). AK109 is not right for honor or count, IMO.

 

To explain the J from Jx or Jxxx, J from Jx is necessary as an unblock for transportation, not from Jxx. J from Jxxx screams contextually of Jxxx often. Two-card principle...

[pclayton]

I think its presumptuous that this a cashout situation at T1. There are a set of situations; where one of the hands has advertised a great source of tricks and we need to take our 5, before they get their 9. If you are establishing this premise as a part of the problem, then fine. I'm definitely leading an honor.

 

Otherwise, I think leading from this holding is highly situational. With an entryless hand against a vanilla 1N - 3N auction, I'm leading low. We lead A = unblock or count, K = attitude , UDCA, and Granovetter's Obvious Shift; . With a likely entry, I'm plopping down the King. I'm not sure I can come up with a situation where I want pard to unblock a Q or a J so I'm not leading the Ace.

 

Lets take these situations in reverse:

 

In situation #2, assuming I have a reason to lead the King, I would expect pard would give encouragement with the 2, which should absolutely promise the Queen. Frankly, the rest of the hand doesn't matter much; the important thing is that we can take our tricks in an orderly manner.

 

#1 is much tougher. I would tend to discourage with Jxxx, but the entire context of the hand needs to be considered and I am not comfortable trying to concoct some type of agreement to cater to both #1 and #2.. What if pard holds AKT9 and needs to shift? In your 'cash-out' situation, why wouldn't we lead the K from AKT9x, AKT9, and even AKT?

 

I'm not trying to be harsh here, but I don't think this situation is as simple as your question (appears) to make it.

[annebabe]

Please assume Declarer has 9+ tricks if you don't take yours first!

 

You get to tell your carding understanding with partner. Then tell us which card East should play with J952 and which card you should play with Q82 so that you cash 5 ♠

 

I don't ask for a system to cater to Q82 and another system for J952. Please describe one system to cash 5 ♠s starting at trick one (1)

 

This is not 2 problems. If IMPS or MP, state your carding and what card East plays to cash the suit ot.

[kenrexford]

Although I see the problem, understand it, and have posted my response, I must agree that the objections to the format of the question are valid, to this degree. At IMP's, if the lead of the Ace asks for attitude, and if the King or Queen only induces positive attitude, then #2 is easy. #1 is also easy -- if partner lacks the Queen, and if we must cash out to set this contract, then hope for Qx and just "do it," and hope partner wisely unblocks.

[kenberg]

IF I am to understand the problem as: An omniscient bridge god has whispered in my ear that this is cash out time, and if I get to design a system appropriate for these hands in this given situation, I guess I can do it. I lead a high honor and partner gives count. In hand #1, I realize partner must have four not two for us to take five, so I continue with the king and then low. In hand #2, I realize that if partner and therefore declarer both have three, then I can only bring in the suit if partner's three card holding includes the Q, so I continue with a low one. I wouldn't play these agreements (well, I have, but I don't like them) but it would be great in this situation.

 

If I am not to understand this as an omniscient bridge god problem, then I doubt any system I play would handle both cases. It's possible that a pair could say that in some highly defined situations that both could recognize, it would be assumed by both parties that only five running tricks in a suit would beat the contract, and perhaps in that situation playing count, or having a lead that demands count (no honor throwing just count) would be the way to go.

 

If there were one system that handled all cases, we would all be playing it. For me, if the auction went 1N-3N, I had no other high cards, and the omni bridge god was on a coffee break, I would lead low.

 

Ken

[bearmum]

[hv=n=s64&w=sak1093&e=sj852&s=sq7]399|300|♠[/hv]

 

or

 

[hv=n=s64&w=sak1093&e=sj852&s=sq7]399|300|♠[/hv]

 

South 2NT p 3NT

 

State your carding signals and state how you can cash out the Spade suit.  South has rest of tricks.

 

Do you use A=Count, unblock, attitude?  K=?  Std or udca.  Your choice.  Just be sure to cash out 5 spades.

I play A lead -- P DROP Honour if you have one

K lead P GIVE ME COUNT ( normal signalling = low from 3 )

 

BUT with THIS holding I really NEED P to have Qx or Qxx so I will lead 4th best because I cannot see me cashing 5 spade tricks off the top --but if 4th best gives opps 1 spade trick with the Q then I hope that P cand get in ONCE and lead S back to what should be 4 tricks to me in ♠s B)

(If I had AKJxxx I would lead A ;)

[HeartA]

Since I am used to std carding, I would play ♠8 on both holdings, assume pd lead ♠A/K.

[Flame]

Most ppl play that one of the A/K asking for unblock and count with no honor while the other asks for attitude.

Those who use the K for unblock/count will win here, they will lead the A, partner with the Q will enc and now easy small to chaout. Partner with JXXX will discarage and the player with AK109X know that playing the A is his only chance to defeat the contract, from this point its not hard to cash.

If you play the opposite way : K for attitude you wony be hable to defeat this hand.

The other possible way is playing always count which will also win here but i believe this is an infirior system.

[Finch]

Please assume Declarer has 9+ tricks if you don't take yours first!

 

You get to tell your carding understanding with partner. Then tell us which card East should play with J952 and which card you should play with Q82 so that you cash 5 ♠

 

I don't ask for a system to cater to Q82 and another system for J952. Please describe one system to cash 5 ♠s starting at trick one (1)

 

This is not 2 problems. If IMPS or MP, state your carding and what card East plays to cash the suit ot.

I have not yet seen a hand where the auction has gone 2NT P 3NT and I have known both that I need to cash five tricks before the opponents gain the lead, and that it's right to lead a top spade (rather than a strong 10 or a 4th highest). So I agree this is a stupid problem.

 

Now suppose that RHO had opened 3NT showing a running suit with no more than a queen outside, and LHO had passed. Now it's true we usually lead high from this sort of holding, and it's a more relevant problem.

 

To answer the question about methods, I play the traditional English method where A asks for attitude, and K asks for unblock, or failing that count, so I would lead the ace.

 

That solves the second problem easily, East encourages and West underleads at trick 2.

 

On the first problem, East discourages. If West knows the only way to beat the contract is to cash the suit, it's easy for West to work out that Qx is the only winning holding in declarer's hand, and continue with the King.

 

However, real life sadly doesn't usually work that way and it's fairly common for the first holding to fail to cash out.