Short suit game tries

[sceptic]

Hi all, bidding goes

 

1 Major pass 2 same major pass 3 clubs(short suit game try) pass

 

what would 3 diamonds show here

 

1/. Minimum HCP

 

2/. A Control ?

 

if so would it be best Ace only

 

NOT Kx or Kxx or Kxxx

 

or A singleton?

 

I have an issue if it is a singleton, would you not be showing a singleton in a pards suit with Values?????? and therefore not worth mentioning just bid the major at the 3 or 4 level whatever you are comfortable with?

[paulg]

3♦ would show:

 

1) non-minimum - otherwise you would go back to the major

2) interest in game - otherwise you would go back to the major

3) non-maximum - otherwise you would bid game in the major

4) length rather than shortage

5) typically concentration of values - not necessarily first round control, perhaps ♦KJx

 

In exception circumstances you may decide to bid 3♦ when you are maximum and are going to bid game anyhow, just in case partner is making a slam try. In this case you should still have concentration of values and probably good trumps.

 

Paul

[Walddk]

A normal treatment would be that responder has concentration of values in diamonds and that he doesn't have the ideal values in clubs (wastage opposite opener's singleton).

 

Games are often not a question about the combined high card points, but about how well the hands fit. With ideal values in clubs (the ace or nothing at all), responder should jump to game. Examples:

 

♠ Qxx

♥ xx

♦ Axxx

♣ xxxx

 

1♠ - 2♠

3♣ - 4♠

 

 

♠ xxx

♥ Qxxx

♦ KQx

♣ Qxx

 

1♠ - 2♠

3♣ - 3♦

 

 

Opener can now make a further try with 3♥ if his hand is suitable for it:

 

1♠ - 2♠

3♣ - 3♦

3♥ - 4♠

 

If you don't play Romex (a combination of short and long suit trial bids), I think short suit tries are better than long (help) suit trials bids. By using long suit tries you only focus on one suit, by adopting short suit tries you focus on two side suits.

 

Roland

[joshs]

Warning: Just as short suit tries sometimes help diagnosis a perfect fit (no wastage opposite the singleton), it also helps the defense.

 

Suppose you hold: x Kxxx Axxx xxxx

 

The auction goes with your side silent:

1S-2S-3D (short suit game try)-4S

 

What do you lead?

 

You lead the diamond Ace and start tapping declarer, since trumps are not breaking. Nice of them to tell you how to defend.

 

Had the auction gone 1S-2S-3C(long suit trial) you would be guessing, but you would probably lead a heart....

[hatchett]

I agree short suit game tries might help the defence but so might a long suit game try! I'm not sure short suit game tries and more prone to helping the defence than any other sort of game try.

[joshs]

I agree short suit game tries might help the defence but so might a long suit game try! I'm not sure short suit game tries and more prone to helping the defence than any other sort of game try.

The difference is:

Short suit game tries instantly show 2 side suits which is more descriptive

 

Long suit tries can show 2 suits also, (bid 1 then bid the other) but if partner accepts the first you don't need to show the second, so have provided less info to the defense.

 

I have always said the best auction in bridge is: 1S-1N-2D-2S-3C-? (or similar)

It highly descriptive, partner can usually place the contract exactly, and of course, it helps the defense. The more exact the info you provide is the better the bidding and the better the defense. Its just a trade...

[HeartA]

agree with Paul.