Game or not

[HeartA]

You held ♠QJ10x, ♥AJ10, ♦xxx, ♣QJx, and pd opened 1♣:

 

pd rho You lho

1♣ (1♦) X (2♦)

2♠ (3♦) ??

[awm]

It's nice having nothing wasted in diamonds, but if partner has singleton diamond there's a good chance he accepts the invitation anyway. It's quite possible that partner could hold a doubleton diamond, even including a non-working honor card. Also, the majority of the opponents' strength is behind opener, which means that any needed finesse (for ♠K or ♣K) is likely to be off. I'll bid 3♠ only.

 

The initial double also seems sort of strange. My impression is that negative doubles here normally show both majors. The other possible meanings of double (to my knowledge) would be takeout (kind of odd with 4333 shape), penalty (clearly not the meaning here), or transfer to hearts (also clearly not meant here). But that's probably not important.

[pclayton]

I think this is the proverbial 30 point deck. Everything in my hand is working overtime, in spite of the yucky distribution.

 

If we were playing a weak NT bidding game would be a 100% action, but even then, I think its pretty clear. A dead minimum looks like: Axxx, Kxx, Jx, Axxx and game is so-so but playable. Make it a likely stiff diamond and its excellent. Will pard accept out game try? I doubt it.

 

By the way, I would also bid 1♠ over 1♦. I'm not sure I like your method.

[joker_gib]

No wastage in ♦ in the "shortness" of partner. I know I'm 4333 but I'd bid 4♠ all my life ;)

 

Alain

 

PS : I don't double but bid 1♠ on 1st round.

[Walddk]

I play 3♠ as no more than competitive on this auction, so unless I jump to game, my other option is double: general game try. 2♠ doesn't show extras the way I play it; merely a 4-card raise.

 

My choice would likely be 4♠ although 4333 is not ideal. However, ♣QJx ♦xxx, ♠J10 and ♥J10 all point in direction of game.

 

Roland

[P_Marlowe]

The initial double also seems sort of strange. My impression is that negative doubles here normally show both majors. The other possible meanings of double (to my knowledge) would be takeout (kind of odd with 4333 shape), penalty (clearly not the meaning here), or transfer to hearts (also clearly not meant here). But that's probably not important.

Hi,

 

there exists a school, for which a direct 1H, 1S shows

a 5 card suit, if you play this style, dbl just promises

4-3 in the mayor.

I dont play this style, but I encoutered at several times.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: Regarding game or not - 3S is just comp., unless you

play 3H as some kind of game try (what else?), you either

bid 4S or not. I would probably bid 3H, it does not hurt to

ask, if 3H would not be possible, just bid 4S.

[joker_gib]

The initial double also seems sort of strange. My impression is that negative doubles here normally show both majors. The other possible meanings of double (to my knowledge) would be takeout (kind of odd with 4333 shape), penalty (clearly not the meaning here), or transfer to hearts (also clearly not meant here). But that's probably not important.

Hi,

 

there exists a school, for which a direct 1H, 1S shows

a 5 card suit, if you play this style, dbl just promises

4-3 in the mayor.

I dont play this style, but I encoutered at several times.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: Regarding game or not - 3S is just comp., unless you

play 3H as some kind of game try (what else?), you either

bid 4S or not. I would probably bid 3H, it does not hurt to

ask, if 3H would not be possible, just bid 4S.

I play that 1♥ is a 5 card suit cause this is the suit just after the overcall but 1♠ is still 4 cards+.

 

Playing 1♠ = 5 cards here is rare (never saw it) imo

 

 

 

Alain

[P_Marlowe]

The initial double also seems sort of strange. My impression is that negative doubles here normally show both majors. The other possible meanings of double (to my knowledge) would be takeout (kind of odd with 4333 shape), penalty (clearly not the meaning here), or transfer to hearts (also clearly not meant here). But that's probably not important.

Hi,

 

there exists a school, for which a direct 1H, 1S shows

a 5 card suit, if you play this style, dbl just promises

4-3 in the mayor.

I dont play this style, but I encoutered at several times.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: Regarding game or not - 3S is just comp., unless you

play 3H as some kind of game try (what else?), you either

bid 4S or not. I would probably bid 3H, it does not hurt to

ask, if 3H would not be possible, just bid 4S.

I play that 1♥ is a 5 card suit cause this is the suit just after the overcall but 1♠ is still 4 cards+.

 

Playing 1♠ = 5 cards here is rare (never saw it) imo

 

 

 

Alain

Hi Alain,

 

well, maybe the style you describe

is, what I have encountered.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Gerben42]

3♠

 

This cannot just be competetive because with 5♠ I surely would have bid 1♠. Even this hand I bid 1♠ first, then after

 

1♣ (1♦) 1♠ (2♦)

2♠ (3♦) 3♥ = invite not necc. ♥ values

[whereagles]

A "Fought the Law" analysis shows you should probably bid 4♠, though my gut feeling is to double them and lead a trump.

[hotShot]

This hand has no distributional strength and is not strong enough to make 4 opposite partners minimum.

Partners 2♠ has not shown more than this minimum, yet.

So i'll bid 3♠, partner will accept the invitation if he has more.

[mcphee]

Failure to bid game here is whimpy, there are too many hands that make 10 tricks where partner is minimum and will pass.

 

I also see no reason to make neg dble here.

[luis]

4♠ of course!

[jdeegan]

:lol: 3♥. I trust this is a game try in spades. It seems to me to be about what I have - 3♠ is not enough and 4♠ is, maybe, a little optimistic.

[hatchett]

I think 3♠ is just competitve, so my choice would be either 3♥ game try or 4♠ and I'm inclined just to bid game

[JohnnyH7]

4S. I have great honor location. I would take 3S as just competitive.

[Kalvan14]

3♠ would be just competitive; I would go for X, a balanced game-try. It is most likely that pard has a singleton diamond; however, if by any chance he has a doubleton, and the oppos a re spoofing, 3♦X with diamond lead might end up in a nice penalty.

 

BTW, I do prefer 1♠: the 1st X should show bot majors, 4-4

[HeartA]

Thank everyone for your response. I held the hand and bid 4♠. 1♦ overcaller led stiff ♥ and his pd had ♠A and gave him a ♥ ruff. 4♠ was off one. My pd was mad at me, even my opps (friends) said I shd bid 3♠ only. I didn't agree and my pd (kind of friend) left. His hand was ♠Kxxx, ♥Kxxx, ♦Ax, ♣Kxx. BTW, don't you think my pd should dbl over 2♦ to show both majors?

 

I did consider 3♥, but was afraid of misunderstanding. After all, my black QJs were gold supporting pd's suits, and ♥AJT were (almost) equivalent to AQx. If the shape were a little better, I would bother post here even if Garozzo said I were wrong.

 

I am used to bid 5-card suit after opp's overcall, X could be one or both majors.

[pclayton]

Good job getting to this thin game. If a 5-1 split in a side suit is what it takes to tank it, then you should feel justified in bidding it.

 

In your agreements, apparently a 1♠ call by you promises 5. Again, I don't like this treatment, but its sensible to play a double by your pard as showing 4-4 in the majors within this context.

[whereagles]

What? Pard yelled because 4♠ went down on a FIVE-ONE side-suit split?

 

Just tell him to learn how to play the cards (i.e. put up heart ace at trick 1 to muddy the issue).

[EricK]

I'm a little late in replying, but I agree with the 4♠ bidders. In a competitive situation like this you have to take the pressure off partner.

[awm]

Partner yelling is a bit extreme. On the other hand, this is not the greatest game in the world. While the 5-1 heart break was unlucky, a 5-2 club break can also cause a problem (club ruff), as can a 4-1 spade break (diamond lead, spade hold-up, pulling the last trump may eliminate the chance to set up clubs). Even if none of those things happen, you've got losers in spades, diamonds, and clubs, and will have to guess hearts to make. Would partner have opened if the ♦A was ♦K? I think many of us would have, and then game is very poor.

 

I agree that (assuming partner understands your style for double of 1♦) he should make a responsive double over 2♦.

[Kalvan14]

3♠ is the single bid I am not considering. Going down in 4♠ on a 5-1 break in an outside suit is unlucky: no reason for pard to complain, much less for oppos to give their learned advice ;)

 

I still wonder what would happen in 3♦X, on a trump lead. Declarer should make no more than 7 tricks (4 trumps, the black aces and the 4th club, since the suit is splitting 3-3)

[caigao]

I was one of the opponents played against HeartA for this hand. I vote for 3♠ (or 3♥ if there is a game try like this between them).

 

If you have the following hand, will you bid 3♠ in the same sequence?

♠QJ10x, ♥AJ10, ♦xxx, ♣xxx

I think it would be overbid for this hand to bid 3♠. So, it's easy to say that 3♠ bid is not competitive, it's clearly showing an invitational hand.

 

I do not know why some people were arguing that the 4♠ was set was because of ♥ distribution of 1-5. Without the bad ♥ distribution, you will still need to finesse ♥Q right, which is 50% chance only. Since it still has 50% chance to make, 4♠ was not a very bad bid.

[whereagles]

"When I take a 50% chance, I expect it to come out 7 or 8 times out of 10."

 

-- Hideous Hog

 

 

:)