Another dubious slam try

[Kalvan14]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=sqj95ha87dj5cakt3]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1N-(2C)*-3D**-(P)-3N-(P)-4S***-(P)-?

*: single suiter (unknown)

**: natural and forcing

***: natural[/hv]

 

1N is 15-17, and may include 5-card majors. 3♦ can be a 2-suiter (and 4♠ confirms it). However, the auction chosen by N indicates a clear disparity between the suit. A semi-balanced hand (say 4-2-5-2) would have started with a double.

Same thing with 4 spades, 5 diamonds and 3-1 in the other suits.

[whereagles]

I'm not sure I understand your methods correctly, but from pard's choices, I have the feeling he's loaded, so I'll move on to slam. Maybe 4NT, followed by a grand slam try if all keys are there.

[pbleighton]

Agree with whereeagles, pd has a big distributional hand. It's your fault if you stop and slam is there, it's pd's fault if slam goes down. Clearly, go to slam :)

 

I would bid 4NT, keycard in spades. This may not be good, pd may easily have a void, but I don't think anything else agrees spades.

 

Peter

[cherdano]

I don't understand this. Why should partner have a slam try? How else could he bid a 5=0=6=2 game force?

 

Also, while my support is great, the ♣K is wasted.

 

Arend

[pbleighton]

"I don't understand this. Why should partner have a slam try? How else could he bid a 5=0=6=2 game force?"

 

Because:

"However, the auction chosen by N indicates a clear disparity between the suit."

 

I read that as 6D4S. With 6-5, wouldn't responder bid 2H, then rebid clubs twice?

 

Peter

[Kalvan14]

I disagree: 4N would be to play. What should opener do with 3-4-2-4 and values mostly in the round suit? Unfortunately, the auction has become crowded (and since clubs is not a suit, you loose even the option of cue-bidding).

As far as the agreement was:

• pass: minimum and wasted values
  
• 4N: to play, misfit
  
• 5C: generic slam try in diamonds
  
• 5D: choice of contract
  
• 5H: strong slam try in spades
  
• 5S: mild slam try in spades
  

Opener's hand is minimum, but there are no wasted values; the fit in spades is ok, and even the J♦ pulls his weight. AK A in the round suits cover the looser outside the 2-suiter.

I'd go for 5♠.

 

With a 6-5, GF but not slam try, the 1st bid should be in the major, irrespective of length.

[pbleighton]

"I disagree: 4N would be to play."

 

Well, you could have told us that :)

 

In that case I agree with 5S - mild slam try.

 

Peter

[Kalvan14]

"I disagree: 4N would be to play."

 

Well, you could have told us that  :)

 

In that case I agree with 5S - mild slam try.

 

Peter

How could 4N be RKC? there is no fit agreed. And opener might be in misfit with 3 spades and 2 diamonds.

I've to say that the 2♣ showing a single-suit (which is quite an unusual defense against NT, at least here in Australia) proved to be quite annoying.

Anyway, forgetting our agreements and anyway assuming that 4N is to play, I might accept without problem a 5♣ last train, with no certainty on the final strain (advancer denial or acceptance are in any case in diamonds, and opener passes or corrects).

5♥ (which bypasses diamonds) can only be a strong acceptance of spades; and 5♠ - by default - is a mild slam try.

 

However, at the table pard bid 5♠, which, IMHO, is the correct bid with his hand.

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sa743hk6daq9862c9&w=sk62hqjt932dt3c52&e=st8h54dk74cqj8764&s=sqj95ha87dj5cakt3]399|300|Scoring: IMP

1N-(2C)-3D-(P)-3N-(P)-4S-(P)-5S-All P[/hv]

 

At the table, I passed 5♠: IMHO, my hand is not much better than a minimum for the my auction, and the spades lack intermediates. There was a 3rd tactical reason: this was the 9th and final board of the last match of a Swiss team event, and the other hand were pretty good [we lost 13 IMPs on this hand, but still won the match by 21 IMPs]. Calling a possibly risky slam was not the best of tactics.

Obviously in the other room they called the slam (in NT!!). Lead heart, taken in the balanced hand; Q♠ for the finesse, not covered, and J♠ without the least doubt. 6N made (below chances: you need not to loose both finesses, but then even if one finesse wins you must find the T in the suit; and both diamonds and spades must break). Bad luck: after seeing the cards, I was relieved not being in slam.

 

The position in spades is interesting: W should never cover, even with the doubleton K, unless he has exactly KT; and E should drop the 8 in any case.

[mikeh]

4N has to be to play. I doubt that one good player in ten would take 4N as keycard without specific and unlikely agreement to the contrary. What is opener to bid with Axx KQJx Jx KJ10x as an easy example?

 

 

Incidentally, this auction is a good example of why a lot of players use transfers: thus 3♣ to transfer to 3♦ and now responder has a 3♠ force available, saving an entire level of bidding

[pbleighton]

"How could 4N be RKC? there is no fit agreed. And opener might be in misfit with 3 spades and 2 diamonds."

 

IMO responder has shown 6-4 and by bypassing 3NT insisted that the contract be played in a suit - there will always be at least a 6-2 diamond fit. Keycard is in spades, as the last suit bid.

 

Peter

[Kalvan14]

Responder has shown a good 6-4, and is making a slam try, but the strain is still unclear. I would never consider 4N as KC asking, sorry.

[kenrexford]

Whether you can accept a slam try or not depends upon your agreements as to what this auction shows. There seems to be insufficient information to assess the auction. Without more, we must simply guess as to what you have agreed. Clearly, though, the AKA covers all side losers, and QJxx covers one lose in spades, with Jx offering a good opportunity for diamonds to come in for one loser or fewer. hence, slam seems logically close.

 

On a side note, perhaps, this situation seems much more workable if a double of an artificial 2C is Stayman and systems are on.

[whereagles]

I would also tend to think 4NT is a sign-off. In which case you need some bid to show the spade fit + slam interest. The problem is that at this level any bid you make can be misunderstood, so if you evaluate the hand as "good for slam" and really want to avoid trouble, just bid a straight 6♠ (or eventually 5NT in case you're optimist of a grand).

 

There are nice ways to set a fit in situations like these (I myself invented a few), but it requires a seasoned partership to use them.

[mike777]

"How could 4N be RKC? there is no fit agreed. And opener might be in misfit with 3 spades and 2 diamonds.

I've to say that the 2♣ showing a single-suit (which is quite an unusual defense against NT, at least here in Australia) proved to be quite annoying.

Anyway, forgetting our agreements and anyway assuming that 4N is to play, I might accept without problem a 5♣ last train, with no certainty on the final strain (advancer denial or acceptance are in any case in diamonds, and opener passes or corrects)."

 

 

Thank you very much for your post Kalvan. Speaking for myself and many other nonexperts I would guess that discussing our agreements in detail over nt opposition bidding might be one of the most important areas of bidding one could spend time on. This comes up very often but most of us nonexperts spend very little time discussing this issue or we forget our agreements as you did on this hand. ;).

 

On this hand I would have x 2c as stayman and then bid 4c over partner 2s bid as a slam try in spades and showing short clubs and encouraging them to cuebid next.

I think if partner responds 2H then my rebid of 3D would be natural and game forcing but must admit have never discussed this.

 

I hope my partners agree :).

[joshs]

I expect 4x7x and a very mild slam try. Perhaps something like Kxxx xx AQxxxxx -

 

5D is safer than 4S oppposite this class of hands.

[keylime]

4NT is not slam try. It has to offer a "where are we going and likes our chances at six diamonds" bid. It also shows absolute control over the unbid suits (with K-x-x per se, you're not bidding anything but pass to 4 ♠), which partner desperate needs to hear. It CAN be passed.

 

Over a single suiter pard was eager to bid 3♦ instead of waiting and then bidding it to start forcing to game. It infers a shape hand that wanted to set the auction rolling immediately heading to a big finish. I play pass and then bid over unknown single suiters as game going, but not slammish - those hands are bid asap.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with Mike's post about transfer Leb/Rubensohl -> this is a great hand for it.

 

I also do not Stayman on hands that are 4-6 in nature. Those hands are so offensive that I want to show my true nature to pard. I transfer and then bid my 2nd suit in passing.

[Kalvan14]

Doubling 2♣ is for T/O, but I don't like this action with a very unbalanced hand: typically, it comes from a more balanced hand, where you can live with partner transforming the double (and on this hand clubs are quite likely to be the suit of the overcaller).

I have not clarified it before, but with a very distributional hand, GF but not slam-try, pass and then bid would be the correct auction.

 

No one has commented on the chances of the slam: would you be happy of playing 6♠?