Posleda Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 I tried to direct two tournaments on BBO. Because they were very small everything was more conspicious. I divide my opinions and suggestions into several parts. Excuse my imperfect English, 2nd subject is HANDLING TOURNAMENT. 1) Delayed tables. Director has no information about delayed tables. He can only ask players to send a message about it or walk through all table movies. I think it is not a good idea let all Ave-- results, I always try to award adjusted score. 2) Awarding adjusted score. By awarding I have to remember number of the board and name of any player. I don't see the actual result, I make the correction in complete darkness. I don't see the new result, I have no way to check: in table movie remains the previous result. In the case of my error only players can tell me that something is wrong. 3) Handling substitutes. The same darkness: I have to remember both names. Substituting is made without confirmation of the new player, so I have to ask him in advance. Many names are very similar - very easy to transfer unexpected player (and he has no defence). Summary. Director has more or less the same informations about tournament as a kibitz has. He can handle it in TABLE window, but without needful information. 4) Modifying running tournament. I may change number of rounds or type of calculating and program says "succesfully". But nothing is changed. Dusan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 1) Delayed tables. Director has no information about delayed tables. As a director, you can be a little pro-active if you are not being hounded by the players. Click on the "TABLE" button on the right hand side of the screen (below the lobby button and above the tourney's button). Then you can scroll through the tables looking for anyone who shows up as "RED". If you see them, you can go ahead and go to that table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posleda Posted October 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 1) Delayed tables. Director has no information about delayed tables. Then you can scroll through the tables looking for anyone who shows up as "RED". If you see them, you can go ahead and go to that table. Misunderstanding, I think. You mean disconnected players, don't you ? I ment tables which have not finished in time in clocked event on account of slow play. How to investigate this ? Dusan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 If you are running a clocked tourney, and do not want anyone to run out of time, increase the per-board limit to whatever you like. No one will run out of time and the sections will move when all players have finished the board. The sub list needs some work, as does the adjusted score stuff. ui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 I think right now, the only way to know which tables have not finished the boards before time is up is to 1) wait for players to tell you 2) Personally kibitz a table to see if they finish the boards before time is up. (You can only do this one at a time, unless you have some sort of clone :) ) If you are running a timed tourney, and participants are going to play slow, obviously you will be flooded with a lot of director calls after each round change. You said you Awarding adjusted score. By awarding I have to remember number of the board and name of any player. I don't see the actual result, I make the correction in complete darkness. I don't see the new result, I have no way to check: in table movie remains the previous result. In the case of my error only players can tell me that something is wrong. Yet you still adjusted scores. Personally I think this is a bad idea. Unfinished boards could be caused by players taking too long to think as easily as players who choose to deliberately wait for time to be up. There is no certain way to confirm this fact, unless you happen to kibitz a table where you can see declarer/defenders who are very certain of winning certain tricks (Ace of trump outstanding? ) Maybe they claimed, but the other party rejected, and choose to wait for A- (the better result, presumably). Then, as an informed observer you may be more sure that this table requires result adjustment, and do so accordingly. (You were there, and so, would know what result to award.) If you don't know the results for sure, why adjust score? My opinion is that if you cannot judge when to adjust scores, and this comes up regularly in tournaments you direct, perhaps its better either to 1) decrease player:director ratio, or 2) start increasing time per board, or3) start doing unclocked movements, or 4) state prior to tourney that you are not adjusting scores for that tournament. On substitution : I agree that the current method of substituting players is not too convenient, but it is also not too hard to remember a few names. Someone suggested in another thread that it'll be easier to sub if directors are allowed to right click on player name and choose "sub" as an option. Yes, much easier, I hope that will be implemented soon. This ease of subbing people could also lead to increased abuse though. On running tournament: Few things are changable after a tournament has started. I think directors are one option that can be changed. Other than that, the rest is probably not easily editable. This is because if someone joins a tournament that specified 8 min a board, would you think it right to edit the tournament to say, 5 min a board? I feel this impinges on that player's right to choose. More blatant examples are things like MP to IMP, 3 boards a round to 1 board a round, etc. As a player, I will not like to have all these changed midway. :) Good luck in your future tourneys, Rain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mink Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Rain:Personally I think this is a bad idea. Unfinished boards could be caused by players taking too long to think as easily as players who choose to deliberately wait for time to be up. There is no certain way to confirm this fact, unless you happen to kibitz a table where you can see declarer/defenders who are very certain of winning certain tricks (Ace of trump outstanding? ) Maybe they claimed, but the other party rejected, and choose to wait for A- (the better result, presumably). Then, as an informed observer you may be more sure that this table requires result adjustment, and do so accordingly. (You were there, and so, would know what result to award.)If you go to the table where an unfinished board was played, you can replay it up to the point where it was interrupted. If this is a claim situation where there is no doubt how many of the remaining tricks each side will win, I would always assign an adjusted score. If there is doubt, but I know that only one pairs had connection problems during this round, I would assign an adjusted score as would result from lucky but reasonable play of the other pair. And finally, if a table was the only one where 6 Hearts were bid, and the contract always makes, and the only uncertain thing is if there is an overtrick or not, I would of course adjust the score to = or +1 (makes only a small difference perhaps at imps and none at MP). However, you can only make adjustments if there are no director calls pending or after the tourney has finished. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 If you go to the table where an unfinished board was played, you can replay it up to the point where it was interrupted. For timed pairs , this is probably true--even though it would be a drag to have to calculate which table (according to board no. played) the boards for EW was played at, and review the board at that table accordingly. For indiv movements, timed or untimed, players are shuffled, and unless you have a very small tourney or an omnipowerful memory, it is quite difficult to tell which table the board you need to be reviewed was played at. And finally, if a table was the only one where 6 Hearts were bid, and the contract always makes, and the only uncertain thing is if there is an overtrick or not, I would of course adjust the score to = or +1 (makes only a small difference perhaps at imps and none at MP). Here, I differ. Of course, this matter would probably be an individual director's preference. My personal preference is not to adjust scores unless it is clear 1 party is holding up play deliberately. This implies that a claim [glow=red,2,300]often [/glow] (note, often is not always) has to be offered, and deliberately rejected/waited out for me to adjust a score. My rationale is that both parties, defender or declarer can claim. If defender sees that a contract is going to get set, but declarer refuses to play a card or claim -1, because he may get a better result when its Ave--, defender can also claim. So a defender who doesn't do this, even when he could, would be held equally liable, and I would not adjust scores for him. And finally, if a table was the only one where 6 Hearts were bid, and the contract always makes, and the only uncertain thing is if there is an overtrick or not, I would of course adjust the score to = or +1 (makes only a small difference perhaps at imps and none at MP). I was under the impression that overtricks are VERY important at MP, and the difference between 1 overtrick or none can cause a top board to become just an average board. On connection problems I would probably adjust scores when 1 party has connection problems, more than for less obvious reasons like the above unethical reason mentioned. My rationale is that party with normal connection shouldn't be faulted for their opponent's bad one. However, I find that this isn't that clear-cut a problem either. Conceivably, one can get a case where NS played super slowly throughout, using up MOST of the allocated time for the 2 boards in their round, and EW played fast, but somehow, just before time was up, E had a bad connection and was disconnected. NS calls for director to adjust score in favour of them. What does director do? I prefer dilemmas like these to be resolved by automated solutions. Already discussed in other threads, I think...would be good to have auto-measurement of each party's time usuage, like chess games. Rain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mink Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Rain:I was under the impression that overtricks are VERY important at MP, and the difference between 1 overtrick or none can cause a top board to become just an average board. In general, you are right. But I was referring to the situation where a slam has been bid and made at one table only. In this case, the overtrick does not matter at all, as in both cases it is a top score for the declarer. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Until we sort this out, pls remember that Any player can send the "current" bridge movie to another via the CHAT window, by clicking "Include Bridge Movie" Maybe the director should make people who want adjustments send him the relevant movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRG Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Until we sort this out, pls remember that Any player can send the "current" bridge movie to another via the CHAT window, by clicking "Include Bridge Movie" Maybe the director should make people who want adjustments send him the relevant movie. That's it. That's the answer! Once someone points it out, it's so obvious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posleda Posted November 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 > Any player can send the "current" bridge movie to another> That's it. That's the answer! I think no. My approach is: player should play, director should direct. I wish I knew about ALL delayed table without any action of players and simply for me. Your discussion about adjusted scores was on the theme IF, WHEN and WHICH. It is of course good subject too, but my question was HOW (technically). One idea to avoid some delayed tables. Result of the play is determined at latest when 12th trick is cashed. At this moment program can finish the game, e.g. temporarily set the "autoplay singletons" function to all players. The same may be done for dummy along card play. Both is quite simple to implement in program, isn't it uday ? >On running tournament:>>As a player, I will not like to have all these changed midway. May be. My question was technical: program allows to change everything and brazens out as all is done, but doesn't change it. Dusan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweny Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Until we sort this out, pls remember that Any player can send the "current" bridge movie to another via the CHAT window, by clicking "Include Bridge Movie" Maybe the director should make people who want adjustments send him the relevant movie. GREAT IDEA!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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