Defensive Carding agreements/Signaling

[ArcLight]

When you sit down against strong players in serious competion(Nationals, regionals, Flight A events, etc.) how do you ask about the opponents carding system? How do you tell them yours?

What if they/you have a detailed and complex set of signals and carding conventions? Like the kind Eddie Kantar suggests in Modern Bridge Defense.

 

 

For all you strong players (Flight A)

In your ESTABLISHED partnerships, NOT pick up games, what types of carding conventions do you use?

 

1) Signaling - priority of these types, standard vs upside down, other

- Attitude

- Count

- Suit Preference (outside of discards)

- Discard Suit Preference

- special agreements like "if you obviously hate the suit, it becomes count, not attitude"

 

2) Carding Conventions - such as A from AK, Coded 9s and 10s, Jack denies

- Leads - 4th best, 3/5th, Rusinow, Journalist, etc.

- Do you use unblocking signals, such as Q demands pard unblocks in NT

- any agreements like K then J shows a solid suit, and asks for an unblock.

 

 

Eddie Kantar, in Modern Bridge Defense, presents a lot of spcialized siignaling and carding, specific to certain situations.

I'm wondering how widely thats used.

Is it used only at his level, or do the experts here use many of these ideas as well?

 

(I know many don't always use Count, they save it for critical situations like hold up situations. I give it as an example)

 

 

 

Do you alert the opps about these agreements? If they are 5+ pages long how do you alert them? Not just the simple stuff like Attitude/Count/Smith Echo/ Odd/Even Discards, but what about more complex rules that you know but are too long to enumerate in a few sentences or on the CC. Hand the opps a multi page document?

[Finch]

Hmm. My system notes on leads, signals and discards take up about 5 pages, I'm not sure I'm going to reproduce it all here!

 

2) Leads

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From length: 3rd/5th v. suit (top from 4 low if you have shown at least 3 cards in the suit; often the honour from Hxx if you are weak and have supported partner). Attitude against NT (usually bottom from any length to an honour, high without an honour), count if leading partner's suit and attitude is known (rare).

 

Honour leads: against suits A/Q for attitude; King for count otherwise standard. Except in a potential cashout situation make the count lead from broken honour holdings (normal lead from K109xxx is the 10; in a cashout position lead the 9 for count).

against NT: King for unblock or count. A for attitude on the Queen; Q(J) for attitude on the J(10); strong 10; Q from QJ10, QJ9 but J from QJx(xx); 9 from 109

 

1) Signals & Discards

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(I play in two established partnerships, one uses reverse attitude the other standard. Both use standard count. Neither feels very strongly that any one method is obviously right.)

 

General principle is first signal/discard is attitude (other than on specific count leads above), but there are a few general and lots of specific exceptions. Against NT first signal is a Smith Peter if attitude in the opening leader's suit is unknown (and count is not obviously more important). Most common exceptions are suit preference positions, but except in the standard giving-a-ruff position if we aren't known to have a long suit these are rare (and frequently false-carded in NT).

[kenrexford]

Basically what Frances said. Add in Rusinow in own bid suit also, and at 5-level (with King for honor/count also).

 

Reverse Smith instead, for unknown reasons.

 

Also have used an "imbedded" Smith. If two options exist, and one (the lead) has been clearly eliminated, then the Smith Echo is for the non-lead alternative. In other words, after a spade lead by us, clearly bad, the Smith Echo is for the obvious switch suit.

[ArcLight]

Let me also add:

 

Do you alert the opps about these agreements? If they are 5+ pages long how do you alert them? Not just the simple stuff like Attitude/Count/Smith Echo/ Odd/Even Discards, but what about more complex rules that you know but are too long to enumerate in a few sentences or on the CC. Hand the opps a multi page document?

[Finch]

Also have used an "imbedded" Smith. If two options exist, and one (the lead) has been clearly eliminated, then the Smith Echo is for the non-lead alternative. In other words, after a spade lead by us, clearly bad, the Smith Echo is for the obvious switch suit.

Yes, this position is worth discussing. There are three ways to play: you continue to play Smith, so 'encouraging' the opening lead means you don't like the obvious switch suit; you change to suit preference; you use your version.

 

We switch to suit preference here.

[Finch]

Let me also add:

 

Do you alert the opps about these agreements? If they are 5+ pages long how do you alert them? Not just the simple stuff like Attitude/Count/Smith Echo/ Odd/Even Discards, but what about more complex rules that you know but are too long to enumerate in a few sentences or on the CC. Hand the opps a multi page document?

No. Not least because the multi-page document only includes things we think aren't obvious; some of the more basic agreements aren't included.

 

Explain if/when asked. The same as all other partnership agreements that don't fit on a cc. We do get asked some quite detailed questions about signalling agreements, and they often get quite detailed answers.

 

Mind you, at the Tollemache (English inter-county championship) declarer asked me "what does your partner's discard mean?" and my answer was 100% accurate and helpful, though not written anywhere in our system notes. I said "it means you are on the diamond guess for the contract".

 

People do ask silly questions. Defending 2NT on Sunday, my partner was asked if there was any suit preference significance to the card I played when I cleared our suit. As dummy had the equivalent of AKJx and AKx in two suits and xxx in the third I'm not sure what answer he was expecting.

[ArcLight]

I am sure you get lots of silly questions.

 

But after reading the depth and complexity of some of Kantars ideas, it wouldn't even occur to me that a certain card play was a signal.

For example: with KQJxx leading the K then the J I would assume that means you have the Q. But with Kantars suggestion its asking for a 10 unblock. How does one ask about that without giving away information?

 

It seems its much easier to alert conventions than carding agreements.

[Walddk]

I play anything my partner is comfortable with, but if I were to decide, I would suggest:

 

Highest from touching honours.

Lead of king asks for count against 5 and 6-level contracts.

3rd and 5th leads, also vs. NT.

Reverse attitude.

Reverse count (when my partner is interested).

First discard is attitude.

 

Special against NT:

A and Q ask for attitude, king for unblock or count (Garozzo).

Double Reverse Smith Peters.

 

Roland

[pclayton]

Spot Leads: 3rd/Low vs suits, 4th and xXxx (up to Q8xx) vs NT. In partner's suit, lead low from xxx (majors) unless raised then lead Xxx. Against minors go ahead and lead Xxx vs NT (I got this from Joe Kivel), since you probably arent leading a minor from xx.

 

Honor leads: A from AK. Coded 10-9's in one partnership. K asks for count at the 5 level and higher and Q asks for count if the leader has shown the suit. Vs NT; A asks for unblock or count and K asks for attitude.

 

Carding is UDCA. Standard Smith vs NT and Trump Suit preference.

 

In one partnership we play Granovetter's Obvious Shift at T1 only.

 

Middle game leads are always attitude based unless its clear to both partners that count takes priority. we had a misunderstanding on this and it cost us 1st in the club last night on the last board :ph34r: .

[ArcLight]

I probably should have asked this question

 

"When you sit down against strong players in serious competion(Nationals, regionals, Flight A events, etc.) how do you ask about the opponents carding system? How do you tell them yours?"

[Walddk]

I probably should have asked this question

 

"When you sit down against strong players in serious competion(Nationals, regionals, Flight A events, etc.) how do you ask about the opponents carding system? How do you tell them yours?"

They get a convention card with lots of info, and we get the same. You can't sit down in a serious game without a CC. If they or we have additional questions, we will ask - before and during play.

 

Roland

[Walddk]

No one expects them or you to present a 5-page document. Less will do, and as I said before, if we think we need more specific information we will just ask. They and we must give a detailed explanation when asked.

 

With certain restrictions, you are entitled to have all the agreements you like, also as far as leads and carding are concerned, but you are not allowed to hide anything from your opponents.

 

Roland

[inquiry]

1) Signaling - priority of these types, standard vs upside down, other Priority is Attitude, count, suit preference, but that can change depending upon the situation

- Attitude -- Upside down

- Count -- upside down

- Suit Preference (outside of discards) - right side up

- Discard Suit Preference - I prefer lavinthal,

- special agreements like "if you obviously hate the suit, it becomes count, not attitude" -- Give me the signal I need.. .depends upon bridge logic based upon dummy and bidding, Also,,, in same vein, use signals to direct the defense not tell about your hands specifically, if I lead an honor and you have a touching honor, don't encourage me to continue the suit if a switch is required.

 

2) Carding Conventions - such as A from AK, Coded 9s and 10s, Jack denies

- Leads - 4th best, 3/5th, Rusinow, Journalist, etc. 2nd-4th best, 4th best versus notrump. Also like 3/5 versus suit. rusinow at trick one only. When playing 2/4 and rusinow leads, I revert to normal leads in PARTNERS suit.

- Do you use unblocking signals, such as Q demands pard unblocks in NT I use that one

- any agreements like K then J shows a solid suit, and asks for an unblock. No

[Free]

What I play is following:

 

leads:

1/3/5, even with honour holdings, both in trumps or NT. Try to avoid 5th... With touching honours we lead highest, with non-touching it depends, but always 1st or 3rd. This also includes coded 9's and 10's.

Specials:

- J usually denies, except with AKJ or AQJ which is very rare.

- from AK we lead A with even and K with odd nr of cards. We also get count signals from a K, and attitude from A.

 

carding:

Small is encouraging or even, high is discouraging or odd. However, when playing high-low, we play our second highest card, so this might be an encouraging signal as well, since partner can place a higher card. If you can't see any higher card than the one partner plays, it means he has singleton (unless he has shown the suit and want to give a clear suit prefference).

Lots of count signals! Yes, opps can count cards as well, but it helps us a lot imo.

 

discarding:

Odd is encouraging except high odd followed by low odd. Even is discouraging with a lavinthal signal. A low odd card is a stronger signal than an even card showing the same suit.