Changing suits to the next level shows extra

[mike777]

Here is another idea from the 1950's that Matt Granovetter brings up. I discussed this from the Al Roth Picture Bidding book.

 

1d=1s

1nt=may have stiff spade, minimum

 

1d=1s

2c=15+ or 5-5

 

You can play 2h now by responder as nonforcing, checkback, xyz etc....

 

Is this viable for other one level auctions also?

[awm]

Let's look at the auctions where the change of suits is not a reverse:

 

1♦-1M-2♣

 

It seems fine to play this as 5-5 or extras. The only other hands you'd want to bid 2♣ on are with (31)54 shape or 2254. With three cards in partner's major it's probably better to raise with (31)54 even if you don't raise on three with balanced hands. With 2254 you could play that rebidding 1NT shows points in short suits and bidding 2♣ shows points in the minors (this is fairly standard) but allowing 2♣ to show extras could easily have advantages. Elianna and I routinely bid 1NT with (31)54 minimums short in partner's suit, and get more good results than bad from this (in particular makes it easier to find a fit in hearts after 1♦-1♠ when responder has a minimum 5-4 or 5-5).

 

1♥-1♠-2♣/2♦

 

Again, this is not quite standard these days. I've gotten good results from bidding 1NT on 15(34) type patterns with a strong three-card suit, or 25(24) with a strong doubleton. Again you're trading off a "points in suits" distinction for an "extra shape or values" distinction.

 

1♥-1NT-2♣/2♦

 

Here though, it seems really important that 2-minor not show extras. Responder usually doesn't have spades, and I wouldn't want to have to pass 1NT with 2542 for example (we could have a huge diamond fit, even a 5♦ game, and play in 1NT when opponents have 9-10 spades and we have no stopper). Most of the time we will be better off to play in a suit when opener has weak spades here.

 

1♠-1NT-2♣/2♦/2♥

 

We could easily miss a game by passing 1NT here with a shapely minimum. This is especially bad because 1NT bidder can have 8-9 points with 6+ hearts. We could have a ten card heart fit, and make 4♥ easily despite opener having a 5314 dead minimum.

 

Anyways, I'd say that an agreement that bidding the third suit shows extras (or 5-5) if it raises the level is extremely playable. But after responder's 1NT, it's better to just bid out shape.

[joshs]

I think its playable. It trades:

a. sometimes getting to the wrong part score

b. sometimes wrongsiding NT (what exactly are you going to rebid with xx Ax Qxxxx AQJx after 1D-1H? It would have to be 1N or 2D if 2C shows extras)

c. describing hand type (letting partner know he is facing a balanced hand)

[sometimes you can catch up on this, since you do have 2 levels between 1N and 3N]

 

for

 

d. better definition on game invitational hands.

 

Another way of playing is have the 2C rebid be muti meaning, and allowing all other bids to be natural and limited.

[Kalvan14]

IMHO, it does not look like a significant improvement over natural rebids.

It will end up with opener rebidding 1N most of the times, with the wildest distributions (and so wrong-siding NT, or playing the wrong partial).

The difference between 2-level and 3-level is quite substantial (you have lost 5 bids), and this makes for a much more cramped auction. At 2-level it is much easier to explore min-max once you have shown your pattern (and in any case you have limited your hand).

[mike777]

I would not suggest this if partners first response is 1nt so I guess the cases might only be:

 

1d=1h

1nt/2d

 

1d=1s

1nt/2d

 

 

1h=1s

1nt2h

 

 

this style may mean rebidding 2d or 2H on only a 5 card suit.

 

Is rebidding 1nt on:

 

x.....AKJ98....xxx....KQTx playable?

[mikeh]

Is rebidding 1nt on:

 

x.....AKJ98....xxx....KQTx playable?

It may be playable, but I don't intend to find out. I think that I would have a hard time persuading any partner to try this style (not that I would try: it seems wrong to me), and I have better things to do at the table than make all the alerts that this change would require. Not only do you have to alert the change of suit, but you are going to have to alert all of opener's 1N rebids as well... at least, in my view active ethics warrant that alert.