i missed the right slam because I didn't like sjs

[jocdelevat]

[hv=n=sxhakj10xxdjxckxxx&s=sakxxhdakqxxxcaxx]133|200|[/hv]

 

Hello everyone

I m intermediate player(sayc only) and i would like to have your opinion about strong jump shift. I do not use(the nice way to say) strong jump shift( I hate jumps in general and especially when our team has the points because I prefer slow but sure). I played in a tourney and my partner(North seat) open 1H. It was a non competitive auction oponenents pass all the way so our auction was:

1h 2d 2h 2s 3h 4c 5c 7nt. I recognize that my mind was under influence by my strong hand(usually for players as my level) and instead to think that 5c shows not such a strong hand and is an invitation to game only to stop in 5d (because my partner didn't asked even for aces) I bid that 7nt(Im sure the devil put me to do that lol)

My partner was an advanced player and he sugested(in a polite way not rude at all) to me that I should have use strong jump shift or to learn a diferent system than sayc (not good enough).

Now my questions are: are strong jump shift bids still a modern bridge biding tool?Is there anything else that I can substitute those strong jump shifts in a non competitive auction?do you take it as strong jump shift if you open and your random partner jump in his suit?

The reasons that i don't like strong jump shift are:

1. takes a lot of biding pace

2. it happends many times to me to open and a random partner to jump in his suit then we missed a slam or got in a wrong nt contract.

Thanks in advance for you comments and opinions.

Best regards, Jocdelevat

[Echognome]

This is a tricky set of hands and is not easy to bid in any system. You have a pretty bad misfit and loads of points between you. I guess if I could see both sets of hands I would probably want to be in 7♦ where I can ruff one spade in dummy and pitch two black suit losers on the A and K of ♥.

 

As far as system is concerned, you would bid pretty similarly in 2/1. I personally think the North hand should bid clubs at his 3rd turn. You would then be able to tell that North was 6-4 and recognize the misfit immediately. That being said, you have 12 top tricks and finding 6♦ or 6NT is fairly reasonable.

 

I don't think you need a SJS to bid this hand at all. It just takes some practice and some judgment.

[joshs]

[hv=n=sxhakj10xxdjxckxxx&s=sakxxhdakqxxxcaxx]133|200|[/hv]

 

Hello everyone

I m intermediate player(sayc only) and i would like to have your opinion about strong jump shift. I do not use(the nice way to say) strong jump shift( I hate jumps in general and especially when our team has the points because I prefer slow but sure). I played in a tourney and my partner(North seat) open 1H. It was a non competitive auction oponenents pass all the way so our auction was:

1h 2d 2h 2s 3h 4c 5c 7nt. I recognize that my mind was under influence by my strong hand(usually for players as my level) and instead to think that 5c shows not such a strong hand and is an invitation to game only to stop in 5d (because my partner didn't asked even for aces) I bid that 7nt(Im sure the devil put me to do that lol)

My partner was an advanced player and he sugested(in a polite way not rude at all) to me that I should have use strong jump shift or to learn a diferent system than sayc (not good enough).

Now my questions are: are strong jump shift bids still a modern bridge biding tool?Is there anything else that I can substitute those strong jump shifts in a non competitive auction?do you take it as strong jump shift if you open and your random partner jump in his suit?

The reasons that i don't like strong jump shift are:

1. takes a lot of biding pace

2. it happends many times to me to open and a random partner to jump in his suit then we missed a slam or got in a wrong nt contract.

Thanks in advance for you comments and opinions.

Best regards, Jocdelevat

Strong Jump Shifts are still a modern bidding tool but they are most useful when made at the 2 level (1m-2M for instance) but can be used at the 3 level also.

 

The way most people play, a strong jump shift shows a hand that

a. wants to play in his own suit, partner's suit or NT (you don't have enough room to start looking for a new strain

b. A good slam invite or better (in fact it works best on a hand that is exactly a slam invite, so you can make a SJS, stop in game and let partner decide if he should go on)

 

I would never make a SJS with this hand since you might want to play in spades, or even in clubs and you can't get there after 1H-P-3D.

 

This is an extremely difficult hand. I would recomend the following start:

1H-2D-2H-2S-2N-3C-3D-?

Here responder likes the 3D bid and can probably just gamble 7D over it. If you are still not sure then the auction might continue:

3S-3N-4D-5D-and you are still guessing whether to bid 6D or 7D.

 

Or 1H-2D-2H-2S-2N-3C-3H-?

here it should continue:

4D-5D- and again you are guessing.

 

Note: I think 2N over 2S is a much better bid than 3H since you have a club stopper and its a cheaper bid than 3H, which leaves partner room to rebid in the minors and you room to rebid 3H later.

 

In general, when in doubt between 2 calls, make the cheaper bid!

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I like sjs, some would say this is an understatement,

but I would not make a sjs with the south hand, you

make a sjs, if you know what you want to play, the

south does not know this, diamond and clubs are both

possible.

 

standard american

 

1H - 2D (1)

2H (2) - 2S (3)

3H (4) - 4D (5)

??? (6) -

 

(1) promising a rebid

(2) could be a 5 carder, no real limit to

the hand strength, excluding the strength / shape required

for 2NT, 3NT

(3) 5-4, forcing, but still not game forcing

(4) 3H, 6 carder max. 14HCP

(5) 6-4, slam interest

(6) unclear, 5C is out, this should show the Ace,

4NT not really, 5D is sign off

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[hatchett]

Playing 2/1 I would bid

 

1♥  2♦

2♥  2♠

2NT  3♣

3♦ 4♦

4♥ 4♠

5♥ 5♠

6♣ 7♦

 

2NT nice cheap space saver

4♦ sets suit and invites cue-biding

 

buts it's a hard hand

[joshs]

Playing 2/1 I would bid

 

1♥  2♦

2♥  2♠

2NT  3♣

3♦ 4♦

4♥ 4♠

5♥ 5♠

6♣ 7♦

 

2NT nice cheap space saver

4♦ sets suit and invites cue-biding

 

buts it's a hard hand

I think 5H in your auction is a major overbid. And thats why its such a hard hand...

[Gerben42]

You either like it or hate it, I really dislike it however not because when it comes up you have preempted your own side. This happens too, from time to time but:

 

* You miss out on other meanings of the bid

* Some alternative meanings solve some big problems which you have to face when you "waste" your meaning space to a SJS.

 

On the actual hand 1♥ 3♦ may be used as a number of things, all more useful than a strong jump shift. Most of them show a fit in ♥.

[hatchett]

I think 5H in your auction is a major overbid.

 

I don't. You have a very good hand for diamonds. Partner will have something in clubs for his 3♣ call. I can't think of a hand where slam hasn't got good play. In the context of giving grudging prefence to diamonds I am enormous.

[mghmaine]

I do like SJS, but regardless of that your adv partner erred in bidding 3H IMO. That bid took up bidding room and just repeated his values. He perhaps wants you to learn some system where a 2H rebid is all but meaningless and so one must bid Hs 3 times to show a good 6-carder. He should have bid 2NT or 3C over 2S.

On the auction you had, I suggest 6D over 5C.

[P_Marlowe]

I do like SJS, but regardless of that your adv partner erred in bidding 3H IMO.  That bid took up bidding room and just repeated his values.  He perhaps wants you to learn some system where a 2H rebid is all but meaningless and so one must bid Hs 3 times to show a good 6-carder.  He should have bid 2NT or 3C over 2S.

On the auction you had, I suggest 6D over 5C.

Playing 2H as a catch all bid is perfectly

normal, in case you think it is not playable,

ask Lawrence or Hardy (I am not sure, who

advocates 2H as a catchall, but one of them

does, the other one advocates 2NT).

 

Regarding 3H vs. 2 NT:

3H describes where you live, the predominat

feature of this hand is a strong 6 card suit,

and it is decidely unbal., 2NT shows the stopper

and is the cheaper bid.

 

Both bids can work out, in the current hand 2NT may

work out better, assuming that 3D over 2NT is

forcing, which I doubt.

"Of course it would not be the first time, that a hand

was played in a partial instead of a slam", just quoting

Harrison Gray.

 

With kind regards

Uwe Gehardt

[OliverC]

Your hand isn't easy to bid in any system but I think you've got as good if not a better chance of reaching your 7♦ contract starting off

 

1♥-2♦

2♥-2♠

3♣-3♦

3NT-4♣

4♦etc etc

 

Opener known to be 1624 and fairly minimum, and Responder known to be strong and pretty much guaranteed to be 4063, so it should be fairly easy for Responder to take it from here.

 

On a more general note I must confess: I dislike Strong Jump-shifts on the basis that they are not normally necessary and the times where they are really useful and the only way to show the hands are so rare that they are statistically insignificant.

 

Similarly, I dislike purely weak jump-shifts because they're a bit like jumping off a cliff with no parachute.

 

My own preference is for fit-showing jump-shifts (or mini-splinters), usually in the 8-9 point range, showing a decent fit for partner's suit and a reasonable 5+-card side suit (ie: fit-showing) or a good fit for partner's suit and a shortage (ie: mini-splinter). These are aimed at reaching thin games based purely on fit rather than necessarily with game values. They work really well when used with Precision or any other Strong Club system, but can work well even when Opener can have a rock-crusher of a hand and you can get to thin slams based purely on fit. Unlike weak jump-shifts where you are not guaranteeing a fit for Opener's suit (indeed, it would be rare that you do have a fit), fit-showing Jump-shifts are explicitly agreeing Opener's suit rather than suggesting an alternative. Moreover they occur with far greater frequency than strong jump-shifts, eg:

 

[hv=n=saqjxxhxdaxxcqxxx&s=skxxhxxxdkqxxxxcx]133|200|1♠-3♦

4♠-Pass[/hv]

 

Swap around North's red suits and North would quietly sign off in 3♠.

 

Just my twopennyworth, you understand...