What does a bid of 5 of the agreed major mean?

[ArcLight]

You hold:

♠ x x

♥ K Q J T x

♦ A J x

♣ A Q x

 

Playing 2/1 White on Red at IMPS

I opened 1♥

Pard responded 2♣ - a game force

RHO Doubles

 

What do you bid?

Redouble - what does that show?

 

Since we hadnt dicussed it I bid 3♣ to show my Club support.

LHO bids 3♠

 

Pard jumps to 5♥, RHO bids 5♠

 

 

What does 5♥ mean? What do you bid?

 

I thought that 5♥ in competition meant bid 6♥ with a 1st or 2nd round control in their suit. I didn't have it, so I doubled

 

 

Pard said 5♥ asked that I bid 6 if I liked my hand. It that the common understanding in competition?

 

I think in an uncontested auction, 1♥ - 3♥ - 5♥ asks for 6♥ of you have 2 of the top 3 honors.

 

This is covered in Root/Pavlicek Modern Bridge Conventions, and there is also a section in Amalya Kearses book.

Are there any other discussions of these high level bids (at the 5 level or above - asking about some suit)

1♥-3♥-5♣ = asking for 6 if you have a club control? [not using Exclusion Blackwood]

[Guest Jlall]

Partner only had 2 ways to support hearts below slam, 4H or 5H. I would have taken 5H as just a general quantitative bid for this reason.

[cherdano]

Never forget to try to visualize partner's hand!

 

Partner is making a slam invite. He is missing KQJ and AQ in our two suits. Is there really any hand that could force to 5H and invite 6H additionally having two spade losers? That would be, at max, xx Axxxx - KJTxxx - I don't think this hand is worth 5H.

 

We have such a good hand for the club-spade double fit that I would cue-bid 6D, I want to be in 7 when partner has spade first-round control.

 

Arend

[Miron]

I rewrite the bidding:

1♥ - p - 2♣ - x

3♣ - 3♠ - 5♥ - 5♠

?

 

It really depends on agreement. I play it sometimes as question for control of opps color (♠ here), pass none, their color (5♠) as first rount, 6♥ second round.

But with no agreement...

I assume one ♠ in partners hand (if opps are not crazy they'll have 10 spades for this defence) and I'll bid 6♥ or maybe cuebid (cherdano's idea). I think that partner could bid 4/5♠ with spade void (reason for 6♥), but he can have it. I'll say 6♥.

[Codo]

What do you bid?

XX shows 3 Clubs...

Redouble - what does that show?

 

see above

 

Since we hadnt dicussed it I bid 3♣ to show my Club support.

LHO bids 3♠

 

Pard jumps to 5♥, RHO bids 5♠

 

What does 5♥ mean? What do you bid?

 

Good support, asking for Spades

 

I thought that 5♥ in competition meant bid 6♥ with a 1st or 2nd round control in their suit. I didn't have it, so I doubled

 

I had done the same.

 

 

Pard said 5♥ asked that I bid 6 if I liked my hand. It that the common understanding in competition?

 

Not for me. With a general invitational strength, I had bidded any slamforcing move in Clubs and later bid N Heart over N Clubs. Of course, this could lead to desaster too.

[hotShot]

Arend is right! Visualize partners hand.

 

He could bid 4♥ and decided to bid 5♥ instead. He did that missing KQJ of ♥ and AQ of ♣. Of cause he knows that you must have some of that. But did you show your full strength? No you did not.

How many defence tricks do you have? Don't count much on ♥ and ♣ opps might be short there. This is hardly enough to compensate for game or slam on your side.

 

5♥ asks you to bid at least 6, if you hold values partner can't ask you about.

[P_Marlowe]

1) Power, time to kill / go for blood

Not playing 2/1, but does 2C really promise

a 5 card suit?

Most of the time yes, but always?

2) 5H: Undiscussed - kill partner, it probably

asks for spade controll, but partner could

have bid more slowly, e.g. 4D as a cue bid

for clubs, partner does not know, that I have

only secondary club support

I would Dbl, taking the money (we are green,

they are red?)

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Fluffy]

Partner only had 2 ways to support hearts below slam, 4H or 5H. I would have taken 5H as just a general quantitative bid for this reason.

I think this is not fully true, he could had cued and then rectified 5/6♣ to ♥. Or just used blacwood with ♣ fit.

 

I would take 5♥ as asking for ♠ control.

 

 

EDIT: now I read arend's post and realise he is right, partner cannot have a hand that only needs ♠ control :ph34r:, so even if that's wrong I'll take it as quantitative.

[joshs]

You hold:

♠ x x

♥ K Q J T x

♦ A J x

♣ A Q x

 

Playing 2/1 White on Red at IMPS

I opened 1♥

Pard responded 2♣ - a game force

RHO Doubles

 

What do you bid?

Redouble - what does that show?

 

Since we hadnt dicussed it I bid 3♣ to show my Club support.

LHO bids 3♠

 

Pard jumps to 5♥, RHO bids 5♠

 

 

What does 5♥ mean? What do you bid?

 

I thought that 5♥ in competition meant bid 6♥ with a 1st or 2nd round control in their suit. I didn't have it, so I doubled

 

 

Pard said 5♥ asked that I bid 6 if I liked my hand. It that the common understanding in competition?

 

I think in an uncontested auction, 1♥ - 3♥ - 5♥ asks for 6♥ of you have 2 of the top 3 honors.

 

This is covered in Root/Pavlicek Modern Bridge Conventions, and there is also a section in Amalya Kearses book.

Are there any other discussions of these high level bids (at the 5 level or above - asking about some suit)

1♥-3♥-5♣ = asking for 6 if you have a club control? [not using Exclusion Blackwood]

In this auction, over 3S there are not a lot of way of supporting hearts. There is 4H and there is 5H. If clubs was not already an agreed suit, partner could have bid 4S (a slam try somewhere) and then 5H, but in this auction I think that sequence is a grand slam try in clubs with controls in both majors. Maybe that should not be the meaning for that sequence, but I expect thats how most people would play it.

 

In general, jumps to 5M have the following meanings in priority order:

a. Quantatitve (better than 4M and worse than 6M)

b. Asking for a control in the opps suit or the unaccounted for suit

c. Asking for good trumps

 

If A is a possible meaning, then A is the meaning. If not, move to B...

[Al_U_Card]

I would take it to mean that he has doubts about the unbid suit! So he has Spades under control and wants to know about diamonds. With your ace, you can bid 6C to try for the grand or 6D to suggest that you have trouble in spades and think that 6H may be the limit. I expect his hand to be

 

KQx

Axx

xx

KJxxx

 

This leaves the t/o doubler with

 

AJxx

x

KQxxx

xxx

 

and the responder with

 

xxxx

xxxx

xxx

xx

[Guest Jlall]

Partner only had 2 ways to support hearts below slam, 4H or 5H. I would have taken 5H as just a general quantitative bid for this reason.

I think this is not fully true, he could had cued and then rectified 5/6♣ to ♥. Or just used blacwood with ♣ fit.

When partner doesn't even know what trumps are, how can he be expected to evaluate well? Not only that, if you cuebid then bid 5H, THAT is a cuebid in my book, you'll have to jump to 6H to clarify that hearts are trumps, and are thus essentially forcing to slam.

[jdeegan]

:) Pard jumped to five ♥ over the 3♠ bid??

 

Was it a quantitative bid? Nah, uses up too much bidding space for that to be it's purpose.

 

Was it asking about trumps (in this case clubs, you "raised" them, remember)? Nah, He doesn't know who has the ♦ ace. Gotta find that first. Plus, if he had a spade control, he might have bid 4♠, planning to correct any subsequent club contract back into hearts.

 

Was it asking about spades? I guess it is, but how he could bid that way w/o knowing about the ♦ A beats me.

[AceOfHeart]

This is my guess

p rates to have long clubs.....so 6♣ should be a good contract maybe he has the ♦K and hope to right sdie the contract and let you bid 6H if you dont have dia A or Q...

Or He is void in spade and xx dia and hope you bid slam if you have dia controled.

 

or a more exotic variant. p is asking you to pass if you dont have club honors or bid 6 wih it ;)

[Trinidad]

:)  Pard jumped to five ♥ over the 3♠ bid?? 

 

Was it a quantitative bid? Nah, uses up too much bidding space for that to be it's purpose. 

 

Partner didn't have much of an alternative.

 

He had been planning to bid

 

1♥ Pass 2♣ Pass

3♣ Pass 3♥

 

Then he had shown a hand that was stronger then

 

1♥ Pass 2♣ Pass

3♣ Pass 4♥

 

and he would have plenty bidding room.

 

Instead, it went:

 

1♥ Pass 2♣ Dbl

3♣ 3♠ ??

 

Now, he cannot bid 3♥. If he bids 4♥ it will show the weaker variation, so he must bid 5♥ if he wants to show the stronger hand with heart support now. His only alternative is to forget about hearts and search for a club slam (and maybe later correct to 6♥).

 

In other words: The auction doesn't say much about partner's hand, other than that he has (three card) heart support, something in clubs (could be four) and that he is interested in a heart slam. He is not asking for a control in spades, diamonds, clubs or hearts. He just says: "How about a heart slam, partner?" The answer should be: "Excellent idea partner."

 

Rik

[ArcLight]

Why not bid 4♠ instead of 3♠? There was room.

Would that not show a spade stopper?

 

?What is the difference in meaning between:

4♠

5♥

 

I think 4♠ shows the stopper

5♥ asks for a spade stopper, setting trumps as hearts