luis Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 [hv=d=n&v=b&s=sk3h87652d6ckq864]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Pd opens 1♠ and you bid 1NT (forcing)Pd bids 2♦ and you bid 2♠Now pd bids 3♣ What do you bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 4H, the expert bid showing no heart values, slam interest, and a big club fit. lol. Playing with a partner who wouldn't understand this I would try 5C. It matters a lot whether partner is 5044 or 5143, and 4H should clue him into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Comment 1: From my perspective, 3♣ is a natural, constructive bid. Partner is patterning out and strongly suggesting 5=1=4=3 or potentially 5=0=4=4 shape. Comment 2: My hand has improved enormously. All my HCPs are working. Game is on: the only question is identifying the right strain. (Hell, Justin is trying for slam) In theory, we could assign a 4♥ call as indicating GF values with doubt about the right strain. The main problem conveying out trump holding to partner. We could be sitting on xx, xxx, or Hx. In theory, the 4♥ should show one subset, and some indirect sequence (potentially starting with 3♥) would show another. Unfortunately, all of this requires rather extensive partnership agreement. As a result, I'm gonna punt by bidding 4♦. This should clue partner in to the Club support and focus his attention on Clubs. For what its worth, I also like Justin's interpretation of the 4♥ bid. I'm just not sure if its more important to prioritize slam exploration over identifing strain in a sequence like this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 4♥ is a great bid if only partner is on the same page. If he is not, 5♣ is the alternative although there could easily be play for slam, even grand slam. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 6clubs, Prefer 4D if that will be taken as kickback for clubs, I think we may have 7clubs on this hand. More worried about missing 7 then being too high in 6. FTL=13-2+1=12 tricks13=total tricks-2=estimated two combined shortest suits...it may be minus one.+1=estimated 22-24 whcp, we may have 25 in which case +2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 [hv=d=n&v=b&s=sk3h87652d6ckq864]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Pd opens 1♠ and you bid 1NT (forcing)Pd bids 2♦ and you bid 2♠Now pd bids 3♣ What do you bid? I expect a 17-18 HCP hand typically with 5143 shape. For instance, AQxxx x AKxx Axx. You should be able to make 12 tricks opposite that hand. If Partner has AQxxx x KQJx AJx slam is not so good. :) Partner might also be 5044 or 5053 shape. Your choices are:a. 6Cb. 5Cc. 4H (A "Bluhmer" showing maximum high cards and no wastage opposite partner's singleton) My vote is c. Partner will bid a slam whenever he has a hearts void, and the most control rich of the 5143's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 The 4♥ bid is a Bluhmer (I think), named after the now-deceased US expert who proposed this meaning for an 'impossible' bid: I would use it only with a player in whom I had considerable confidence. I agree entirely with Justin's slam ambitions: picture AQJxx void Axxx Axxx: would your expert partner bid it any other way? So Grand is still very much a live possibility. I could not ever bid 4♦: surely there is a risk that partner will think that you hold a 2=4=4=3 hand with, say, Kx xxxx Kxxx QJx or the like: a hand that was maximal for the 2♠ preference which has now grown up on the auction IN ♦! If I could not bid 4♥, I think that it is close between 5♣ and 6♣: I go with the former to cater to the 5=1=4=3 possibility, altho such a hand should possess full values and hence may make slam anyway: AQJxx x AJxx AJx However, all my 'good' hands feature that magic AQJ of ♠ and that may be asking too much: too much, at least, to force to slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 I'm not convinced that 4♦ here isn't a natural call. It's typical in two-over-one to correct to spades holding two spades and four diamonds and a hand in the 7-9 point range (since 2♦ only guaranteed three to begin with, and a 3♦ raise would show more values). Seems to me that 4♦ should show just such a hand, with well-fitting cards. Perhaps: KxxxxxQJxxKxx On the other hand, 3♦ would show wastage in hearts and suggest a place to play: KxKJxxxxxxxxx Anyways, I agree with previous posters that 4♥ should show the actual hand. It's basically an "anti-cuebid"; it can't be right to bid a heart game now opposite partner's shortage when your hand wasn't worth introducing hearts at the two-level, so an artificial meaning is mandatory. Another reasonable action might be to start with 3♥, which is probably asking partner to suggest a strain (might get you to 4♠ opposite strong spades and 5♣ opposite weaker spades for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 I also would interpret 4D as a natural bid. 3D would not be forward going, so to show a good hand you must jump. We all sometimes preference on hands with 2-4 in partners suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 I like 4♥, I recommend that you don't make this bid when playing with me (actually, now that I've read this thread it is probably safe, hurray for the forum!). What is 4NT? It can't be asking for aces because 4♣ is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 [hv=d=n&v=b&s=sk3h87652d6ckq864]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Pd opens 1♠ and you bid 1NT (forcing)Pd bids 2♦ and you bid 2♠Now pd bids 3♣ What do you bid? Why 4♥ when 3♥ should show the max hand with no heart wastage? I've never heard of it being called a Bluhmer, but the theme of bidding an impossible 4th suit in this sequence has popped up in MSC on many occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 I think 3♥ is a forward-going hand with no clear direction, whereas 4♥ agrees clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 I think 3♥ is a forward-going hand with no clear direction, whereas 4♥ agrees clubs. 4H doesn't actually agree clubs, its just a slam try with no wastage and a fit for some minor, and about 9 working HCP (in this auction). Over this, responder can bid 4S (not forcing), bid 5C(p/c), bid 4N(blackwood), or bid 5N (pick a slam). Interestingly blackwood is most frequently chosen when opener has a void and is interested in 7! Its possible that responder has Kx xxx Kxxxx Qxx or Kx xxx KTxx KTxx which are too strong to pass 2D but slightly too weak to bid 3D (playing 2/1) so you tried 2S hoping you will hear a 3'rd bid from partner, and what a 3'rd bid it was... I actually can't remember for certain what hand 3H is suppossed to show (I am going to e-mail someone to check if I am right). If I remember correctly its suppossed to show something in hearts, extra values, but doubt as to the final strain, perhaps something like Qx Axxx Kxxx xxx which has no idea where they belong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 BTW, I am pretty sure that "Play Bridge with Mike Lawrence" had a hand in it where ther auction went:1S-1N-2D-2S-3C-4D-5D So if you are interested in this type of auction, you might want to check out that hand and Mike's discussion (its a great book if you have never read it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Or check out Problem 2 on Steve Robinson's solver's forum for a description. http://www.districtsix.org/WBL/Sol/2005/Sol0505.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Just wondering, would people really bid 2S with Kx xxx Kxxxx Qxx? And what if 2D promised 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Just wondering, would people really bid 2S with Kx xxx Kxxxx Qxx? And what if 2D promised 4? I would bid 3D with that hand, but 2S is reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Just wondering, would people really bid 2S with Kx xxx Kxxxx Qxx? And what if 2D promised 4? Well its partially a function of you ranges. I don't think you should bid 3D on both:Kx xxx Kxxxx QxxandKx xxx Kxxxx KQxHaving a good 8 to bad 12 range for the bid is a bit much.If your opening bids were sound enough that you could force on all 12's and 2D showed 4, then this hand is probaby worth 3D. Note: Until you know where partner's shortage is the club Q likely isn't worth much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 could partner be 5242 with 17-18 and no ♥ pts ? AKTxxxxAxxxAQ not strong enough for a jump shift. i dont think ill pass 2s. so 2nt, 3clubs or 3d seems plausible. partner surely think there is no slam possible and game in a minor so unlikely that hes probably shopping for 3nt or 3s or 4s. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 I think partner should bid 2N with 5242 even with no heart stoppers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 4C - Gerber, wtp? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 It may make sense, within the narrow context of a hand that is 5=2=4=2 with extras and no ♥ stopper, to use 3♣ to describe the hand. But you cannot have it both ways: it cannot mean 'either' natural or a probe for 3N. You cannot have it both ways because responder will often have a hand that cannot be bid intelligently, or co-operatively, unless he knows which it is. Thus with the posted hand, he has a strong slam move opposite a natural bid and a 3N opposite the biggish 5=2=4=2 hand. In my view, the natural hand is both more frequent than the probe and more problematic, should you choose to use 3♣ as the probe. The probe hand will often survive bidding 2 or 3N directly, since responder will usually hold some ♥ length/strength on this auction: if he has more then 2♠, you get back to ♠, and he can retreat to 3♦ or 3♣ over 2N when in doubt. The natural hand is unbiddable (as far as I can tell) in any other reasonable way. As is often the case, we have to recognize that our bridge vocabulary, grammar and syntax prevents us from being able to describe all hands, and we have to make choices: choices dictated by relative frequency and risk/benefit analysis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 I remember having a and almost like this one this summer, I made the stupid 5♦ bid instead of 4♥ missing an easy slam. Won't do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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