kenberg Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Pard and I have agreed to play unusual over unusual, and I even thought to ask if this applies over minor suit michaels bids (with this partner it doesn't). Ah but... 1NT-(2NT)-3D is ? Without a doubt, it is my error in not asking about this at the same time I asked about 1D-(2D)-2H. But I didn't. Not like I don't know better. So: What's best here? With other partners I play U/U as on whenever the opponents promise two specific suits. With this partner I play U/U over 1M-(2NT) but not U/U over 1m-(2m). The auction 1NT-(2NT)-3D is to be defined. It seems to make some sense to abandon U/U, play 3C as Stayman, and play transfers on. I'm sure the world is full of people who resolved this years ago. For those who wish to know, I was the 3D bidder and alerted opps that it showed spades. I held 5-5 in the majors, and after they bid 4D I bid 4H and played it in my 5-2 fit, not successfully. Had I just bid 3S over 2NT like a normal human partner would have raised to 4. Much better. Anyway, partner and I remain on speaking terms but we need to decide how to play this. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 I like unusual over unusual here. A marked improvement is to play 3D here as constructive with spades, and 3S as forcing with spades (reverse of normal). This allows you to get out in 3H opposite constructive in spades. 4-4 spade fits are sometimes hard to find, but usually you want to avoid a 4-4 fit after the 2N bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Here any agreement is better than no agreement, and Unusual vs Unusual should work just fine. It will be useful to have a bid that shows both majors, so perhaps you could use 4C and 4D for that. In the spirit of unusual over unusual you could play something like: Pass then double of a 3-level contract= take-out.Double = penalty oriented, denies a 5-card major. Later doubles are penalty.3C = GF hand with hearts.3D = GF hand with spades.3H, 3S = natural, mildly invitational.3NT = to play.4C = both majors, slam interest.4D = both majors, no slam interest.4M = to play. Alternatively you could use 4C and 4D to show shortness and both majors, but this seems more useful to me. If you are interested in 3NT but you are lacking a stopper then you can start with double or pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 I missed Justin's post. Although I like his suggestion, I'm somewhat worried about wrongsiding the games. It seems important to have the overcaller lead into partner's hand. Perhaps 3H should show GF with spades, and 3S should show GF with hearts. You lose nothing but it does become more complicated, I think I'll just stick with normal unusual over unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Its normal to play U vs U. Its better to play:x=values, interest in defending3C= stayman, usually both majors3D=H, INV or better3H=S, INV or better3S=5-5 in the majors, gfing3N=make them guess which minor to lead... I usually play vs 2N opening bids showing the minorsx=15+ balanced, about 18+ with a suit3C=majors, better or equal hearts3D=majors, better spades3H=hearts, sound, 14-17ish 3S=Spades, sound, 14-17ish3N= Solid 6 card major, and stoppers in the minorsP then x=takeooutP then 3M 11-13ish, usually a 6 card suit or a singleton in their suit The same idea can be extended to the 1N-(2N) auction, with different ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted March 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 I'll discuss these various suggestions with partners. Justin, just to be sure I understand: Are you saying that this reversal of the usage for S&D is also for the usual case of unusual 1M-(2NT)? Eg 1H-(2NT) -3D (spades, modest values)-pass3H (I really prefer hearts unless you have a ton of of spades)-... This indeed sounds useful. Probably it is less needed after 1S-(2NT) but I imagine it could still come to something. Maybe1S-(2NT)-3D-Pass3H (I have hearts also, if that does anything for you).When you actually have this major double fit it is probably naive to think fourth hand would be passing, still it might happen. ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 unusual over unusual is a fine counter-device Just make sure that you and your P agree on which version of U/U you are going to play: I know of 4 different versions, and more are coming every day. DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 This indeed sounds useful. Probably it is less needed after 1S-(2NT) but I imagine it could still come to something. Maybe1S-(2NT)-3D-Pass3H (I have hearts also, if that does anything for you).When you actually have this major double fit it is probably naive to think fourth hand would be passing, still it might happen. ken Yes, it is pretty much only useful after 1H-2N, but I switch it in every u/u auction just to be consistent (easier on the brain). It doesn't have much effect after 1S-2N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 I use the lo-lo one due to memory concerns (the lower cue = limit or better, the higher cue = forcing). Justin's concept has considerable merit however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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