Unassuming Cue Bids

[joshs]

This hand is remarkably similar to one of the hands in the latest English Bridge magazine, where you have to bid

 

AQ

10xx

Jxxx

AKJx

 

opposite

 

J10xx

Kx

KQxxx

Q10

 

after you pass (sound opening) and LHO opens 1H.

 

give partner a 3244 (a more typical double) and you still want to play in 5D.

Thats a tricky hand: After P-1H-P-P-x-

with the opps silent:

2H-2S-3C-3D-?

Do you raise or bid 3H? I think with no help in hearts (jxx is the borderline case) you need to raise to 4D which partner would happily bid 5 over.

Is 3clubs really forcing here?

 

I am a passed hand and I have x'd and bid 2s....it seems I can pass 3clubs now?

Is 2h showing a 2 suited minor suit hand or one suited in clubs....that could not overcall 1h?

 

This is a very tough hand I can see at the table a lot of room for misunderstandings. Well done to those that get to 5D.

You are not a passed hand. Someone who passes before the opps have bid is a passed hand. Someone who passes after the opps bid can still have as much as a 17 count, and is not considered a passed hand.

Sorry, I meant the cue-bidder is not a passed hand. His cue-bid sets up a force until suit agreement. Since you are a passed hand, he can pass any of your suit bids, but his new suits are forcing after a cue-bid.

e.g.

2H was forcing (Qbid)

2S was not (since you are a passed hand, but its pretty wierd to pass this)

3C was forcing (new suit by "unlimited hand" after a cue-bid occured)

3D was not (since you are a passed hand)

4D was not (suit agreement)

[mike777]

yes I am saying south is a passed hand and might pass 3 clubs?

I fail to see how North is unlimited? They did pass over 1H. That must limit the hand in someway?

 

If you agree that North is limited in someway, then the issue is 3c forcing? Perhaps it still is but I can see room for misunderstanding at the table under pressure.

 

I would say no way is 3clubs forcing but willing to listen and learn. :).

[joshs]

yes I am saying south is a passed hand and might pass 3 clubs?

I fail to see how North is unlimited? They did pass over 1H. That must limit the hand in someway?

 

If you agree that North is limited in someway, then the issue is 3c forcing? Perhaps it still is but I can see room for misunderstanding at the table under pressure.

No I don't agree that north is limited in any way. Yes he probably doesn't have a 22 count. But thats not the point. In the standard auction:

1H-1S-3C 3C is unconditionally forcing depite the fact that that player was "limited by not opening 2C". It was easier in the initial days of approach forcing to explain the concept.

 

Back then: opposite a player who has shown values, new suits by an unpassed hand were forcing.

 

This got watered down with the following exceptions:

1X-1Y-1Z (limited by failure to jump, hence non-forcing)

1X-1Y-2lower (limited by failure to jump or reverse, hence non-forcing)

 

now there is the equal level conversion auctions which :

some play:

1S-x-1N-2C(freebid, hence some values)-P-2D or

1S-x-P-3C(Value Showing)-P-3D as non-forcing

but this is by conventional agreement. In standard these are forcing bids.

 

So despite the fact that you think you have shown your hand, partner needs to be able to set up forcing auctions, so he can show his hand whenever he is not limited to values that couldn't possibly make game oppiste your hand. When he cue-bids here he says "I know you are a passed hand, but I still think we have game, lets try to find the correct spot"

[han]

I would certainly not double with the hand that Frances gave. A balanced fifteen count is not enough for me to double with a doubleton in the only unbid major.

 

As for the hand in question, 2S seems perfect. Forcing to game (2H followed by 4S!) seems very optimistic.

[joshs]

Bidding problem:

 

You Hold: AKxx x AKxx AJxx

 

Equal Red. RHO opens 1S What do you bid???

 

I am sure in a MSC club you will have votes for:

a. x

b. 3N

c. 2D

d. 2C

e. Pass

 

Personally, assuming you belong in game, i think you will rarely ever get to the correct game after x.

[joshs]

Bidding problem:

 

You Hold: AKxx x AKxx AJxx

 

Equal Red. RHO opens 1S What do you bid???

 

I am sure in a MSC club you will have votes for:

a. x

b. 3N

c. 2D

d. 2C

e. Pass

 

Personally, assuming you belong in game, i think you will rarely ever get to the correct game after x.

And 1N, I left out 1N...

[hrothgar]

Bidding problem:

 

You Hold:  AKxx x AKxx AJxx

 

Equal Red. RHO opens 1S What do you bid???

 

I am sure in a MSC club you will have votes for:

a. x

b. 3N

c. 2D

d. 2C

e. Pass

 

Personally, assuming you belong in game, i think you will rarely ever get to the correct game after x.

Even so, I'm gonna start with double and hope that i don't hear 3♥

[mike777]

Bidding problem:

 

You Hold:  AKxx x AKxx AJxx

 

Equal Red. RHO opens 1S What do you bid???

 

I am sure in a MSC club you will have votes for:

a. x

b. 3N

c. 2D

d. 2C

e. Pass

 

Personally, assuming you belong in game, i think you will rarely ever get to the correct game after x.

Even so, I'm gonna start with double and hope that i don't here 3♥

1NT

[joshs]

Personally, Pass and 1N seem close for me with that hand. I really hate passing over a 1 level opening with 18+ points. Even though you hope that by passing you will be able to describe your hand better by passing first, you will only rarely get a second chance to bid. Having said that, when the auction goes all pass you really might be better off defending 1S (at all red) then playing in whatever contract you reached by bidding. With a weaker hand like AKxx x Axxx AJxx I think pass is clear!

 

I know one top player (Hi Stevie), who runs a bidding contest, who gives 0 to any takeout x with a stiff in an unbid major. He is a bit extreme for most of us, but x then NT with a stiff in an unbid major is really begging to end up in a 5-1 fit....

[benlessard]

Its a passed hand cue-bid so for me its not GF.

 

It show more then 1 strain of contract like 4M-6m or both M or weak 4M but stoppers in the opponent suit and at least value to go to the 3level.

 

Not sure the hand is good enough for it but its certainly better to cue-bid 2♥ then to bid 1s or 2d. Wich show no values.

 

 

so 2♥ followed by 3♠ make sense.

 

A direct 2♠ seems like the proper value bid.

 

 

Ben

[civill]

2♠