ACBL ALERT CHART->>delayed alerts

[jocdelevat]

Hi

Im not a tourney director just a simple intermediate player but an online friend confuse me with his story bellow:

"I agree with her tht all alerts must be made as per the ACBL chart. I personally had a harsh experience at the online Z league where we were playing a 2/1 and as per the ACBL rules NO ALERT IS TO BE MADE AFTER 3nt LEVEL BID. Before tht all conventions shd be alerted. But tht day I was in a slam contract when i responded to my ptners 4nt as 5c showing 0 or 3 keycards. When the oppts saw 2 aces in my hand along with K of the trump suit they called Director and asked the hand to be skipped. AND TO MY HORROR the TD of tht tournament who knows wht this bid means as well on my telling tht no alert was to be made asked me to skip the hand as my ptner had not alerted the 5C response. I was too sorry to say tht I didnt want to ruin my bridge by playing such biased tournament. SO please remember tht after 3nt BID THERE IS NO ALERT TO BE MADE. THey can ask about thebids but cant blame them forthose bids. Thanks all and hope we dont make such mistakes. "

 

Is that true of what he saying? I tried to read the ACBL ALERT CHART and I find the chapter where it says something similar but not specify if is just normal blackwood or keycards too. I didn't understand either what delayed alerts are.

I know here in BBO everyone alert the keycards. is that conform with ACBL ALERT CHART?

[hrothgar]

The ACBL rules regarding delay alerts were designed for Face-2-Face play. Many regulatory bodies are concerned that alerts may provide unauthorized information to partner. In conjunction with this, there is a general belief that the opponents really don't need to be immediately informed that bids above 3NT have an unexpected meaning. Accordingly, the ACBL has created what is known as a "Delayed Alert". (I have quoted the relevant regualtion at the close of the posting)

 

With this said and done, this regulation is rarely used in Online Bridge where one's partner can not receive unauthorized information from the alert. Its unclear whether the ACBL has formally addressed whether or not this rule applies or not. Personally, I suspect that that there is a general assumption that the rule doesn't apply without the establishment of a formal policy. (Ideally, it would be nice if the ACBL posted a separate version of their regulatory structure for Online events)

 

However, regardless of whether the alert is required, the Director's ruling sounds somewhat dubious. In order for a border to be adjusted, the opponents need to demonstrate that they were damaged by an infraction. Simply complaining about the existence of an infraction is not sufficient.

 

http://www.acbl.org/play/alertprocedures.html

PART X: DELAYED (or POST) ALERTS ALERTABLE CALLS ABOVE THE LEVEL OF 3NT STARTING WITH OPENER'S SECOND TURN TO CALL

 

Once the auction has progressed to the point that the opening bidder has had the opportunity to make a second call, conventional calls at the four level or higher are not Alerted until the auction is over.

 

These DELAYED ALERTS are REQUIRED to be made by the DECLARING side before the opening lead. The DEFENDERS are REQUIRED to Alert declarer AFTER the OPENING LEAD but BEFORE declarer makes a play from dummy (Alerting before the lead is turned face-up and the dummy is spread is best).

 

The declaring side must make their Delayed Alerts before the opening lead. Defenders wait until they have made the opening lead before they explain calls requiring a Delayed Alert. As with normal Alerts, the partner of the person making the Alertable call is the person who makes the Delayed Alert and explains the agreement.

[Sigi_BC84]

The ACBL rules regarding delay alerts were designed for Face-2-Face play. Many regulatory bodies are concerned that alerts may provide unauthorized information to partner. In conjunction with this, there is a general belief that the opponents really don't need to be immediately informed that bids above 3NT have an unexpected meaning. Accordingly, the ACBL has created what is known as a "Delayed Alert". (I have quoted the relevant regualtion at the close of the posting)

 

With this said and done, this regulation is rarely used in Online Bridge where one's partner can not receive unauthorized information from the alert. Its unclear whether the ACBL has formally addressed whether or not this rule applies or not.

On a related note, the German tournament regulations have special alert rules for games behind screens. Maybe the ACBL has something similar.

 

When playing with screens you make self-alerts, like on BBO. Also you are not using the Stop card. I think it is reasonable to apply the screen rules for online play, since the situation is very similar.

 

So in my opinion playing online the rules should require self-alerts of all calls through 7NT.

 

Thinking about it, it would be a nice to have the equivalent of the Stop card for jump bids on BBO, at least for really serious sessions where you can expect the players to bid in tempo. This could even be made an automatic feature (bidding is stopped for a few seconds after a jump bid). Another possibility would be to simulate a bidding tray (i.e. the calls are passed through a virtual screen in pairs).

 

That way you couldn't collect information from your partner hesitating before making a call.

 

--Sigi

[Elianna]

the ACBL rules NO ALERT IS TO BE MADE AFTER 3nt LEVEL BID. Before tht all conventions shd be alerted.

This is not actually completely true. All bids STARTING WITH opener's second rebid that are beyond 3NT are a delayed alert, as described above).

 

Also, not all conventions should be alerted. For example, Stayman should not be alerted. Transfers should be announced, which is different than an alert. There are other examples.

 

Also, I agree with the others, that in an online setting, there is no excuse not to alert or explain your bids, even if they are technically non-alertable.

[LH2650]

Online play should be consdered equivalent to using screens in this case. When using screens in the ACBL, there are no delayed alerts. See acbl.org - Site Index - Tournaments - Conditions of Contest - Appendix G.

[luke warm]

whether or not there's any excuse to alert bids that by rule require no alert, the ruling sounds pretty bad to me... until such time as rules are more standardized regarding alerts, people shouldn't be punished for following the ones in place

[csdenmark]

Hi

Im not a tourney director just a simple intermediate player but an online friend confuse me with his story bellow:

"I agree with her tht all alerts must be made as per the ACBL chart. I personally had a harsh experience at the online  Z league where we were playing a 2/1 and as per the ACBL rules NO ALERT IS TO BE MADE AFTER 3nt LEVEL BID. Before tht all conventions shd be alerted. But tht day I was in a slam contract when i responded to my ptners 4nt as 5c showing 0 or 3 keycards. When the oppts saw 2 aces in my hand along with K of the trump suit they called Director and asked the hand to be skipped. AND TO MY HORROR the TD of tht tournament who knows wht this bid means as well on my telling tht no alert was to be made asked me to skip the hand as my ptner had not alerted the 5C response. I was too sorry to say tht I didnt want to ruin my bridge by playing such biased tournament. SO please remember tht after 3nt BID THERE IS NO ALERT TO BE MADE. THey can ask about thebids but cant blame them forthose bids. Thanks all and hope we dont make such mistakes. "

 

Is that true of  what he saying? I tried to read the ACBL ALERT CHART and I find the chapter where it says something similar but not specify if is just normal blackwood or keycards too. I didn't understand either what delayed alerts are.

I know here in BBO everyone alert the keycards. is that conform with ACBL ALERT CHART?

Please be a good guy - whenever in doubt press alert-button. You don't need to explain unless queried. That cannot be hard.

 

Off topic: Words like these are very difficult to read tht oppts wht shd ptners If these words reflects your way of info I think wise of you to reconsider your position.

[Miron]

Just few questions to delayed alarts (I am a bit curious):

Does it go this way?

• The bidding ends (last pass).
  
• Now declarer's side makes all delayed alerts (btw, still cross table or self alerts? In case of bad alerts/explanations it is often usefull to know who was what thinking during bidding).
  
• Defender prepares his card (bidding still on table). (What if the defender leads directly?)
  
• Defenders makes all delayed alerts.
  
• Bidding is removed from table.
  
• Dummy is shown.
  

[jocdelevat]

Thank you to all for your answers.

Off topic: for csdenmark

Thank you for spelling correction but I just copy and paste the story. Next time I will revise before publish.

 

Best regards

Jocdelevat

[Elianna]

Just few questions to delayed alarts (I am a bit curious):

Does it go this way?

1.The bidding ends (last pass).

2.Now declarer's side makes all delayed alerts (btw, still cross table or self alerts? In case of bad alerts/explanations it is often usefull to know who was what thinking during bidding).

3.Defender prepares his card (bidding still on table). (What if the defender leads directly?)

4.Defenders makes all delayed alerts.

5.Bidding is removed from table.

6.Dummy is shown.

I've renumbered for convenience.

 

2. Yes, now declarer's side makes all delayed alerts. Either player can explain either player's bids. Usually in my partnership with Adam, he explains all delayed alerts, as he tends to be more succinct (I ramble on). Both partners are responsible for an accurate communication of their agreements (both implicit and explicit) to the defenders. Defenders are NOT entitled to know that one person got the agreement wrong, they're just entitled to know what that agreement IS.

 

3. If defender leads directly, a director should be called (saves a discussion between defenders on whether one should be called later) and the situation explained. See below, though.

 

4. Defenders make all delayed alerts at the END of the play period. (Usually a declarer would ask before, though, about what bids mean)

 

5. The bidding should be removed at the end of the auction, but usually people on the declaring side (especially on a long relay auction) tend to leave the bids out while they are explaining them (this also is done to prevent a defender from leading before they get the delayed alert).

 

this is a difference with ACBL and other places (I don't know specifically which, but I believe I've been told England among others): In ACBL, you lead AFTER the bids are picked up.