Another negative double question

[paulhar]

Hi - more negative double problems! You hold a typical Bridge World's Master Solver Hand:

 

8743

K42

AQ8

Q107

 

Partner opens 1C, natural, 13-21 points (or some reasonable likeness to this), and 3 or more clubs (assume 5 card majors; however, if you play 4-card majors, you can respond in that light.) The next hand overcalls 1S, and it's your guess. As you can see, I've asked you to plan your next bid over a likely continuation. If anybody would like to reply, I'd also know what people would do when, after they make their call, it goes 2S on your left, pass, pass to you, as in:

 

Pard RHO You LHO

1C 1S (your choice) 2S

P P ?

 

Thanks for your input! Unlike the other problem I posted, I have no strong opinion about this one.

[mike777]

x and then 2s.

 

I really like my hand assuming we play VERY sound opening bids, we may have 6 clubs.

Having QT inside clubs is a plus

Having my ace and K outside of clubs is a plus.

On the other hand give me the same honors but put AK in clubs and Q outside and my hand becomes much worse IMHO evaluation.

 

 

If my LHO bids 2s and partner passes I will x again in balance seat.

[han]

I don't like this problem! :D

 

My actions depend on the vulnerability and form of scoring. For instance, at favorable vulnerability I wouldn't feel bad about passing out 2S (I'd lead a trump). None at MPs I would consider that suicide.

 

 

OK, I cleverly avoided the subject of negative doubles, but I guess I owe you an answer. The answer is that yes, under some circumstances I would double with this hand. That's all I can say lacking more info, I don't think that you can answer this problem in isolation.

[luke warm]

at the table, i'd pass and pass the reopening x

[Guest Jlall]

X then pass. This is not the hand to bid 1N. xx is much better for that bid than xxxx where they are almost sure to run the suit if partner doesn't have a sure stopper.

 

As for balancing, this is very much a partnership philosophy and style thing. I would expect my partners to almost always bid with a stiff spade.

 

Yes, that means with almost every dead minimum and 6 clubs including a stiff spade I would bid 3C and with almost any 1345 I would be Xing 2S. This style is not mainstream, and not for everyone, but it has served me well. My partnerships have the philosophies of "short hand strains to act." We get too high much less often than you might think, often you can "read" what is happening, or you simply have a guess and you guess right.

 

In a partnership where partner is expected to pass with minimum hands, I would reopen with a X. If the opps are in a 4-3 this is likely to be a mistake, but they are probably in a 5-3.

 

If partner bid 2H over my X in an uncontested auction, I would just let it go. I have extras but i only have 3 hearts and my spade holding is bad.

[civill]

dbl or 2!D or 2!S for 3NT game trial,depending on the used conventions with PD;

[Fluffy]

X then pass for the first problem

X then double for the second EDIT: now I think of it partner has 5♣, so 3♣ is better bid.

[luis]

I bid 1NT, 4333 hand.

I owe pd many jacks from previous overbids so it's time to pay.

 

Luis

[awm]

I like pass followed by 2♠. This should show a good hand with no clear direction, just what we have. I don't think it's game forcing; I wouldn't pass 1♠ with game values unless I wanted to penalize. This can get us to 2NT if partner has something in spades, or 3♣ if partner has five of those, or game in clubs or notrump.

 

The other options all seem flawed to me. Say I double, if partner bids hearts are we really in the right strain? Sure we probably have a 4-3 fit (although it might be 3-3 if partner's stuck for a bid) but the taps are going to be in the long hand. We could easily play 2♥ going down when we can make 3♣ or even a game. It seems like doubling and then passing 2♥ is simultaneously misdescribing the shape and the values and hoping this somehow evens out. And what if partner bids 3♥ or 4♥? Seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

[Codo]

I like Luis comments and bid 1NT as the least evil...

[paulhar]

Hi - My vote isn't in yet, but I'd like to offer up the opinions of four of my bridge playign friends, each with many regional wins and two with over 7000 MP apiece. While I strongly disagree with at least one of these, I'd like to post them anyway. These won't show up in the vote because I can only vote once. But you can add:

 

(1st answer) This hand is much worse than it looks, as if partner is not 5-6, we can't have an 8-card fit in any suit but clubs. So, if there is a game, it has to be 9 tricks off the top in Notrump (presumably played by partner, unless he has Ace or KQ), or 11 tricks in clubs, since a 4-3 heart fit has the 4-card heart suit taking the force. Chances are any spade honors partner has aren't working. So, I would like to underbid, and the choice is between passing and bidding 2C over double, or just bidding 2C. I choose the latter because I don't want to miss game with 30 HCP between us. If the opponents bid 2S now, I'm willing to double at matchpoints.

 

(2nd answer) 2 Spades.

 

(3rd answer) 1 Notrump. When they bid 2S, I pass.

 

(4th answer) Pass and rebid 1NT over the reopening double. I think we lose five spades and another trick. If they bid 2S, I double and lead a trump.

 

This is turning out to be quite an interesting problem since there seems to be no consensus about the right answer and I've seen very few bidding problems which got more different answers than this one!

[mikeh]

I think the technically correct answer is pass then 2♠: the 'impossible' sequence to show an unbiddable hand.

 

If partner passes 1♠, then we are probably in as good a spot as possible: he lacks a strong 1N opener or better, and has ♠ length.

 

But the problem with this technically correct sequence is that it forces us to the 3-level on what may well be a 4-3 fit, with the long trump hand taking the tap. We may have enough tricks on power to survive but it is going to be uncomfortable.

 

Thus I prefer to double and pass 2♥ and raise 2♣ to 3♣ and raise 1N to 2N.

[mike777]

Here are 2 email votes:

 

1) "1nt...I am 97% sure my partner will bid this also..."

 

I have an easy 1NT bid here. Partner won't

bury us like he would if we make a cue-bid that distorts both our strength and our distribution. Doubling and then

cue-bidding does the same thing.

 

I don't see a whole lot of danger with calling 1NT as at least we have a lot of them (a gravity stopper)--if partner

is very weak (and SHORT) in spades, he'll likely pull by bidding out his pattern. If partner has a little spade length

even without a stopper, the opening leader (who will then be very very short) will likely lead something else.

 

2) ;) his partner's bid was 2S........."my partner plays 3-3 fits well"........

[Al_U_Card]

A major (sic) problem is that if pard takes your negative double seriously (especially if LHO raises spades to the 2 level (meaning pard has at most 1 spade and will be even more inclined to bid H)) he will take the tap in Spades in his hand and you will lose control.

 

Altho pass is a possibility, I like 1NT on values and sometimes it talks LHO out of leading a S or when he does it doesn't hurt too badly at the one level. The extra hcp will result in going plus which is a benefit on these types of hands. (When you know where you want to be, go there! If pard has values in S then they are wasted so game is out of reach and if they take a trick, then they are not combining with your high cards so game is still out of reach.)

[joshs]

With 1 more point I would pass and then bid 2S. This hand is right on the cusp for that sequence. I have no strong opinion about negative x then pass (underbid) vs pass then Qbid (overbid). I voted for negative x then pass but its really close. Its partially my style to be "very agressive with a stiff in the opps suit, very conservative with length in the opps suit."

[pclayton]

I'm with Mike. Pass then a cue tends to show this type of hand. My memory harkens back to an old MSC problem where this was discussed.

 

Even then, I can't think of a better use for the pass then Q.

 

Its more interesting when pard doesn't reopen with a x, but 2 of a new suit.

[Kalvan14]

X then pass for me.

I agree with justin, on all and every point.