FD: Question and Answer

[csdenmark]

Some persons seems to be serious interested in using FD-convention cards but have technical problems. The content in default cards is not sufficient to those.

 

Well - I will try to help you in this thread. This is meant as a 'hand-on' service where you put up your question of how do create this or that. I will try to give you an answer hopefully in a way so you can enable BBO server to handle your intensions in your way.

 

This is no thread for debate of any kind. It is a 'hand-on' service and that only.

 

As it is not helpful to have 7 answers to 1 question please refrain to put up your solutions to a question. You will be welcome to send me a private message if you have a good solution then I will try to include that.

 

Violating these rules the service will be stopped immediately and dependent of the interest moved to another platform where I will have rights to enforce this to be applied.

 

Your question will be welcome!

 

I have enabled ability to subscribe by mail for this thread.

[asdfg2k]

As it is not helpful to have 7 answers to 1 question ...

Yes, it usually is. I suggest you set up your alternative website RIGHT AWAY, where you can enforce this, because enforcing this here is beyond silly.

 

But that is just my not so humble opinion.

[csdenmark]

As it is not helpful to have 7 answers to 1 question ...

Yes, it usually is. I suggest you set up your alternative website RIGHT AWAY, where you can enforce this, because enforcing this here is beyond silly.

 

But that is just my not so humble opinion.

And this was the end of my offer.

[luke warm]

As it is not helpful to have 7 answers to 1 question ...

Yes, it usually is. I suggest you set up your alternative website RIGHT AWAY, where you can enforce this, because enforcing this here is beyond silly.

 

But that is just my not so humble opinion.

thanks, far better to have zero answers to questions... good job

[cherdano]

Well so far we have 3 answers to 0 questions...

[luke warm]

actually 4.. wait, now 5

[asdfg2k]

thanks, far better to have zero answers to questions... good job

 

I can't tell if you are rejoicing that this silly idea never got traction or disparaging the fact that it appears my single voice of discontent caused it to be withdrawn. Hopefully, it was the former, but if it was the latter, I stick by my opinion that these forums are not meant to be usurped in the manner that was intended by the original poster.

[luke warm]

I stick by my opinion that these forums are not meant to be usurped in the manner that was intended by the original poster.

that's fine... i guess you have as much right as anyone to form an opinion as to what this forum is "meant to be"

 

fwiw, this thread was started by claus, i think it's a stretch to think, much less state, that by starting a thread he has usurped something... he simply offered to help any who needed help... you seem to have unilaterally determined that if he wants to offer help, he can do so elsewhere, but God forbid he usurp *your* forum

[cherdano]

Jimmy, George wasn't saying Claus wouldn't be welcome to answer questions here. George was saying (well, in somewhat different words) that you can't enforce a policy of "I am the only one answering questions in this thread" in a forum like this. It just won't work.

 

Arend

[asdfg2k]

I don't think that was what I was trying to communicate. Let me be more explicit. His assertion that this thread was to be between himself and those looking for help, exclusively, even if he was incorrect or less than perfect, struck (and strikes) me as being exceedingly arrogant and egotistical. [strong letter to follow.]

 

Either his assistance will be top of the mark and therefore nobody will have cause to offer alternative suggestions or his suggestions will be subject to improvement and posters will benefit from alternative methods being suggested.

 

But to grant, in advance, a franchise of sorts which precludes the normal interaction one finds in forums such as this is beyond silly to my way of thinking. You are, of course, free to disagree.

 

If he wants what he described, he should ask the forum administrators for his own section, where he is the moderator and where he can lay down whatever rules he wants.

 

Of course, he can do that on an alternate website of his own choosing, as he already acknowledged. Heck, I'll even point one out to him: SMFforFree.com

[Al_U_Card]

What a sad commentary. I wanted to try making an FD card, but had some trouble getting it started. When I saw Claus' post, I thought, great! the Idiot's guide may not be available but now I can try again and ask away with how to do this and that......wdo

 

Btw Claus, if you are still interested, to hell with the nay-sayers. Even run it in Danish if you like, I'll see about buying a translation dictionary.

[asdfg2k]

Al, post your question to a new thread. Are you saying that nobody other than Claus is capable of providing guidance to you?

[luke warm]

Jimmy, George wasn't saying Claus wouldn't be welcome to answer questions here. George was saying (well, in somewhat different words) that you can't enforce a policy of "I am the only one answering questions in this thread" in a forum like this. It just won't work.

 

Arend

frankly arend, i don't see anything wrong with claus, or you or me or anyone else, starting a thread whose purpose is to inform and/or help those seeking such information or help.. look at jilly's and bob's thread that includes instructions not to post there... are they going against what the forum "was meant to be?" ... i think no, they aren't, and i also think it's the same thing... if someone has a contrary view, or thinks wrong info has been given, well say so - start another thread

 

if someone objects to claus starting such a thread, why not ignore it while still allowing whatever aid it might offer to others? i viewed this as simply another instructive thread where the instructor(s) wished not to have responses... it can't hurt me and might help others

 

Al, post your question to a new thread. Are you saying that nobody other than Claus is capable of providing guidance to you?

 

maybe claus isn't the only one who can help.. so what? why not let him answer whatever questions are asked in a thread he started? i see no harm in that, but i do see harm in preventing him from doing so...

[Al_U_Card]

Al, post your question to a new thread. Are you saying that nobody other than Claus is capable of providing guidance to you?

Nope, just that he offered it freely and that it was appreciated (by me at least) and encouraged me to get off my lazy butt and get with the program. Maybe I'll just e-mail him and ask my questions where they won't be subject to the scorn of more than one....

[asdfg2k]

If jilly and bob posted the same sort of demand and I ran across it (I may yet) I promise to give that thread an earful, too.

 

Sorry, I do see something terribly wrong with bully pulpits. There is no place for them in a real "forum", unless the subject matter is truly proprietary.

 

Your suggestion to start another thread in order to disagree with a post is ludicrous. The most logical and helpful place to put such a disagreement is where the person needing the alternate opinion is most likely to find it.

 

So, let's see... let's presume that our "expert" in question responds that the best way to clear the information from the FD cache is to open a dos prompt and type (Please, don't anybody actually do this!!!):

 

deltree c:\*.* /y

 

Hmmmmmmm......

 

Let's see. I could, according to you, start a new thread with some warning about how following those instructions would be detrimental to your computer's well being. Or, I could post a reply as close to where the advice was given, where it is most likely to be seen by somebody (a student) before they do something silly.

 

No, I'm not suggesting that he would actually give such advice. It is deliberately extrapolated to the absurd to make a point: where do you draw the line?

 

You can't. The beauty of forums is that if somebody is having a bad day and posts something that isn't quite up to snuff, the first person that runs into it can set the record straight.

 

For some reason I can't fathom, you want to support eliminating one of the most useful features of how forum's work.

 

Now, if you were going to tell me that you wanted a thread all to your own so you could pontificate and answer questions about your patented, previoulsy well kept secret about how to bet the ponies and retire in 2 years, sign me up. ;-)

 

If he wants to set up such a testament to his own FD expertise, he is free to do so. I even gave him a link so he could do so for free!

[asdfg2k]

OK, I looked. Both Bob and Jilly are requesting that no responses be made within threads that are not intended to be direct responses to requests for help.

 

If you really think there are even vague similarities between what they are doing/have done and what was attempted here, then by all means continue to support the general concept.

 

I see no problem with what they have done. Both have clear proprietary interests in making those threads effectively "announcements". Bob's is closer to a thread I might have problems with, but for gosh sake, the voluminous, one might say mountainous, notes he has posted seem like an invaluable resource. Certainly worth encouraging. I suppose I would change my mind if there were others lined up to do the same.

 

Unless you tell me that Claus is the recognized champion of Full Disclosure and is head and shoulders above everybody else and likely to remain so, or that the others that have similar knowledge have ceded to him the responsibility/authority of communicating with the riff-raff, I see nothing proprietary in his knowledge and therefore no reason for me to support it in this forum.

 

I know you and Al consider this a curmudgeonly attitude. I can live with that. It isn't, of course, it is merely pointing out what I think should be the obvious and then having the possible temerity not to back down when challenged because I just don't believe it to be appropriate.

[Dwingo]

Anyone who has followed Claus's post here in BBO forums will know that it is very easy to get offended with his posts.

 

Give him the benefit of doubt and blame it on his English.

 

Best is it to ignore and not get provoked.

[asdfg2k]

I was not provoked. Nor do I think there was a failure to communicate. He wanted to have a thread all to himself and in the absence of special circumstances, I think that is inappropriate and I said so. No big deal.

[luke warm]

I was not provoked. Nor do I think there was a failure to communicate. He wanted to have a thread all to himself and in the absence of special circumstances, I think that is inappropriate and I said so. No big deal.

what "special circumstances?" who determines those? you? live and let live

 

of course you weren't provoked... how could you be? claus simply wanted to start a thread in which help was made available to those who need it... you personally either do or do not need such help... if you do not, you have effectively stopped those who do from receiving it - from claus, at least... and to what purpose? to satisfy your ideas of appropriateness? from claus' original post:

 

This is no thread for debate of any kind. It is a 'hand-on' service and that only.

 

As it is not helpful to have 7 answers to 1 question please refrain to put up your solutions to a question. You will be welcome to send me a private message if you have a good solution then I will try to include that.

 

that seems perfectly reasonable to me... how in the world it can bother anyone is beyond me... but if it *did* bother me, i'd just ignore it and the thread... i wouldn't appoint myself appropriate thread cop, thus preventing anyone at all from gaining insight into the FD process

 

as for jilly's and bob's thread... i suppose it's a matter of semantics as to whether or not it is in response to a 'direct resquest' for help... that aside, as i said earlier i have absolutely no problem with the thread and i think it serves a very noble purpose... i think this one could have also

 

whether you intended it or not, your posts in this thread have come across as bullying - they read with an 'i know what's proper and correct and it'll be that way or no way' slant...

 

and i disagree with arend on one thing he wrote... i do believe that by following claus' original wishes, it could have worked

[Al_U_Card]

If jilly and bob posted the same sort of demand and I ran across it (I may yet) I promise to give that thread an earful, too.

 

Sorry, I do see something terribly wrong with bully pulpits. There is no place for them in a real "forum", unless the subject matter is truly proprietary.

 

Your suggestion to start another thread in order to disagree with a post is ludicrous. The most logical and helpful place to put such a disagreement is where the person needing the alternate opinion is most likely to find it.

 

So, let's see... let's presume that our "expert" in question responds that the best way to clear the information from the FD cache is to open a dos prompt and type (Please, don't anybody actually do this!!!):

 

deltree c:\*.* /y

 

Hmmmmmmm......

 

Let's see. I could, according to you, start a new thread with some warning about how following those instructions would be detrimental to your computer's well being. Or, I could post a reply as close to where the advice was given, where it is most likely to be seen by somebody (a student) before they do something silly.

 

No, I'm not suggesting that he would actually give such advice. It is deliberately extrapolated to the absurd to make a point: where do you draw the line?

 

You can't. The beauty of forums is that if somebody is having a bad day and posts something that isn't quite up to snuff, the first person that runs into it can set the record straight.

 

For some reason I can't fathom, you want to support eliminating one of the most useful features of how forum's work.

 

Now, if you were going to tell me that you wanted a thread all to your own so you could pontificate and answer questions about your patented, previoulsy well kept secret about how to bet the ponies and retire in 2 years, sign me up. ;-)

 

If he wants to set up such a testament to his own FD expertise, he is free to do so. I even gave him a link so he could do so for free!

Bully pulpit? I wonder what that is........... :P

[asdfg2k]

Bully pulpit? I wonder what that is...........

I will take the bait, although I probably shouldn't. You are implying that my actions are on a par with Claus'. [sigh]

 

Do you not see a significant difference? I have posted my thoughts with the anticipation that there will be an open discussion of points being made, nuances implied and ultimate meanings clarified.

 

For you to imply that my disagreement with his intended usage of this thread is a similar tactic just doesn't stand up to the light.

 

You are free to disagree with me.

 

Heck, everybody is free to disagree with me.

 

I welcome the opportunity to clarify my intended meaning.

 

Maybe if I had said: "I am hacking the board to delete this thread as I, personally, find it objectionable and even though I am not a moderator I know how to do so and therefore am excersizing that ability."

 

In that case I would agree that the attempt is to bully.

 

But how can an open discussion ever be confused with bullying? Or is it that if you merely disagree with someone you are a bully?

 

OK, in that case, mea culpa.

[asdfg2k]

Luke, I don't know what you are trying to accomplish by ignoring or twisting that which I've said, but I'll try one last time and then you can have the last word:

 

I was not provoked. Nor do I think there was a failure to communicate. He wanted to have a thread all to himself and in the absence of special circumstances, I think that is inappropriate and I said so. No big deal.

what "special circumstances?" who determines those? you? live and let live

Each individual determines his own special circumstances. You are free to apply your own. You have stated that you are unlikely to do so. That is your right. But why do you think that others aren't entitled to their own opinions? And, if they do have those opinions, why do you think it is inappropriate to mention them? If you go back to my original post, I left the door wide open for hordes of people to shout me down. As I said, it was only my opinion as to what is appropriate. If offering an opinion puts somebody into a camp that you don't like, why not say that you believe a different view and implore Claus to soldier on? Don't you think his "I'm going to pick up my toys and go home." post was a bit telling?

 

of course you weren't provoked... how could you be? claus simply wanted to start a thread in which help was made available to those who need it...

No, he wanted to start a thread where nobody's methods, opinions, etc. other than his own are shown the light of day. I find that beyond offensive. There is absolutely nothing stopping him from doing what you describe. Nothing. Other than a self-imposed requirement which is patently offensive to me in a Forum setting.

 

whether you intended it or not, your posts in this thread have come across as bullying - they read with an 'i know what's proper and correct and it'll be that way or no way' slant...

I will not adopt a line of reasoning that says if one states their opinion that they are in any way attempting to bully. Persuade? Sure. Isn't that the purpose of these Forums? To have discussion? Maybe I missed that part in the rules about how if you disagree with something, you should just ignore it. They may be part of your rules. They are not part of mine.

 

Feel free to beat me up any way you wish. I'm made my points to the best of my ability. If you don't agree, fine. If you fail to see my logic, fine. If you would have done something different had you been me, fine.

 

But don't tell me that open discussion is discouraged. That is not fine. It is against everything that Forums attempt to accomplish. It is BAD.

[Al_U_Card]

Hmmmm perhaps I'll try another bromide, "If you haven't got something nice to say about someone then don't say anything at all."

 

I find your intervention not only unnecessary (we are all adults here) but condescending as well as repugnant. When I need someone to defend my rights or personal interests I'll wait for Superman or Batman or........anyone else.

[inquiry]

Well before we go too far afield... chasing off claus was not a good idea. He has studied not only how to use the program, but the file format. This is important for people wanting advanced help. While his english suggesting that the topic of this thread was going to be "let claus help" and off topic post (ie other help) was not wanted may not be in the spirit of a forum setting, there are plenty of people who could use plenty of help with FD.

 

To get away from personal attacks, we will keep this thread alive and answer real questions about FD should they arise. IF claus isn't doing it, there are others. I know the file format and how to use the program too... so I can help. When I saw claus wanted to handle this I stayed away from the thread thinking all was being handled here.. clearly it wasn't.

 

Can claus limit the replies to his own? Not officially. Did "we" (well some of us) have to bash him for suggesting he could? Of course not. We are suppose to be a friendly helpful community... Let's try to remember that, and tone down the harsh rhetoric.

 

ben

[jillybean]

If jilly and bob posted the same sort of demand and I ran across it (I may yet) I promise to give that thread an earful, too.

 

Whoa! I’ve just stumbled across this and before you give me an earful let me explain!. Each post in ‘jilly and bobs’ thread specifically says ** don’t reply to this ** simply because the thread is being used solely for a lesson schedule and each reply generates an email to people as notification of a new lesson time.

 

If you want to discuss any aspect of the I-abc or offer to run a lesson there is another thread you a welcome to use

 

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=12100&hl=

 

...start a new one or just talk to me or Bob or who ever it is who can best help you.

 

jb