why do so many people try and learn 3 or 4 systems

[sceptic]

I play sometimes against polish club and precision opponents and also some weird systems played by a lot of mad brits and I have no idea what to bid or how to defend against these. (anyway that may not be relevant)

 

my question is, what merit is there in someone of my level, intermediate (I hope) learning 3 or 4 systems and huge amounts of conventions, when I find that I can not play one system properly and I have gaps in my ability bidding and playing (I have on my profile SAYC and 2/1, neither of which I consider I am advanced at).

 

I just see some people that I do not consider any better or worse than me learning precision, acol, sayc and 2/1, should I be doing more or should they be doing less? ( I do read and do try and attend lessons and I have an excellent mentor and I attend some excellent teachers sessions as and when I can)

 

Should I learn more conventions so I know what I am up against when the opps use them?

 

Should I stick with one system only?

 

Should I stick with the 2 systems I am learing as it makes it easier to play with pick ups?

 

Should I learn more defences to conventions?

[AceOfHeart]

I play sometimes against polish club and precision opponents and also some weird systems played by a lot of mad brits and I have no idea what to bid or how to defend against these. (anyway that may not be relevant)

 

acol?

 

IMHO,

 

I personally play 2/1 and sayc only. However as Sun tze once said:" If you know your enemies well and know your self well, you will win 100 battles" So knowing what each bid oppenents made mean deeply will aid in both declarer play and defence later.

 

Sometimes i feel that explainations given may not be enough and "hidden" meanings may be omited due to lack of time/space.

[helene_t]

Bridge should above all be fun. Except for the few of us that make a living of it, it makes sense to learn systems if you think it's fun and focus on other things (card evaluation, competitive bidding, play) if you think that is more fun.

 

Personally, I find bidding theory facinating. And a lot of nice people on BBO play Polish Club only so I can play with more partners if I play that as well.

[cherdano]

my question is, what merit is there in someone of my level, intermediate (I hope) learning 3 or 4 systems and huge amounts of conventions, when I find that I can not play one system properly  and I have gaps in my ability bidding and playing (I have on my profile SAYC and 2/1, neither of which I consider I am advanced at).

None (just my opinion).

 

Arend

[csdenmark]

I play sometimes against polish club and precision opponents and also some weird systems played by a lot of mad brits and I have no idea what to bid or how to defend against these. (anyway that may not be relevant)

 

my question is, what merit is there in someone of my level, intermediate (I hope) learning 3 or 4 systems and huge amounts of conventions, when I find that I can not play one system properly  and I have gaps in my ability bidding and playing (I have on my profile SAYC and 2/1, neither of which I consider I am advanced at).

 

I just see some people that I do not consider any better or worse than me learning precision, acol, sayc and 2/1, should I be doing more or should they be doing less? ( I do read and do try and attend lessons and I have an excellent mentor and I attend some excellent teachers sessions as and when I can)

 

Should I learn more conventions so I know what I am up against when the opps use them?

 

Should I stick with one system only?

 

Should I stick with the 2 systems I am learing as it makes it easier to play with pick ups?

 

Should I learn more defences to conventions?

In my youth 40 years ago United Nations started a programme they called 'Lifelong learning'. I have tried to live according to that as I think it is important to widen your perspective. As I live in a small country it is of crucial importance to understand what is happening elsewhere and especially why.

 

So for bridge.

 

If you want to find yourself after 40 years still to be playing beginner bridge with much routine - you need to do nothing. Else be curious!

[MickyB]

Unless you enjoy it, no. It will help your understanding of your system and that of others if you do so, but there are better ways of using your time.

[Flame]

Its fun , the best part of bridge for some of us is trying to find the perfect system.

[hotShot]

First of all, you should know your own system.

After that it is helpful, to try to learn those convention others play against you. But learning defences is only helpful if your partner knows them too.

 

If you enjoy learning more systems, and if you can do it without loosing your own, try to learn acol or 2over 1. This will inspire your sayc perspective, without disturbing too much.

After that a strong club system like precison or polish club is fine.

But don't rush it, never forget that you need to know your own system best.

 

[edit]

Remember, it is not the system, it's the player that makes the difference. To improve your still, it is better to work on your declarer play, your leads and your signaling.

[hrothgar]

Here are my own thoughts:

 

I think that "why" is a lot more important than "what". If you are serious about learn about bidding, you best choice of action is to focus your attention on a single well-designed system. I don't think that your choice of system really matters much: K-S is great, as is Polish Club or Precision. Acol's fine. If you like 2/1 Game Force there are good books documenting Washington Standard and Aces Scientific as well as the (obvious) workbooks by Lawrence and Hardy. You could even go with Picture Bidding by Al Roth one of the old books on Blue Club.

 

The important thing is to avoid systems that are presented as a set of absolute rules without providing any kind of context. You can memorize rules all day long, but you still won't understand how to bid. Once you have a really good understanding of one system, I strongly recommend going completely schizo and playing something radically different. If you've been a very sound 2/1 game force style, try playing Precision. If you started with Polish Club, jump over to Acol. The goal here is to (hopefully) understand that there is no one true path to salvation.

 

Above all, when your playing against a wide variety of different stuff, the single most importantly thing is to avoid losing your composure. Don't fixate on the name of of the convention. Focus on the important stuff:

 

Is the bid forcing?

What range does the bid show?

Does the bid promise (or alternatively deny) a fit?

 

Focus on where you are in the auction rather than how "they" got there.

[Al_U_Card]

Suit yourself (always). Some will learn a new system to be able to play with a "better" pard. Some just like tasting new flavors. Some are searching for the holy grail.

 

If you want to do well, concentrate on fundamentals. If you want to have fun, do what makes you happiest, and enjoy.

[DrTodd13]

If you want to be successful, get a regular partner, pick a system you both like, document it, practice it, establish agreements for specific situations. This will go a long long way. Once you have done this, then how will you know if your system is the best it can be? Should you add a certain convention? It is my opinion that if you only play one system then you don't know what you don't know. There was a time shortly after I started playing where I played a different system _every week_. I did this only because it was fun for me. In the process though, you will learn a lot of bidding theory and will be better placed to make judgements such as whether to add a convention to your competition system. It will also improve your bidding judgment even in your competition system.

[Guest Jlall]

my question is, what merit is there in someone of my level, intermediate (I hope) learning 3 or 4 systems and huge amounts of conventions, when I find that I can not play one system properly and I have gaps in my ability bidding and playing (I have on my profile SAYC and 2/1, neither of which I consider I am advanced at).

I would say its a detriment to learn numerous systems (at the intermediate stage anyways). If your goal is to be a successful player, I wouldn't recommend it.

[barmar]

I think there are two ways to look at this.

 

From one point of view, I agree with Justin. If you're an intermediate player, you have enough to learn without trying to deal with a wide variety of systems. If this is overwhelming you, you'll get frustrated and confused, and you won't be able to concentrate on the other aspects of the game.

 

On the other hand, there's something to be said for learning general principles, rather than just memorizing specific systems. If you can learn different systems, you have a wider variety of potential partners to play with, and this can help your improvement. If you just concentrate on a specific system, you may find yourself in a rut.

 

I've been playing long enough (18-20 years) that I probably could try to learn a totally new system, but I have a hard time taking such a leap. I've been playing natural systems (SA and 2/1) my entire time, and I'm scared to leave my "comfort zone" and take the leap to something like a strong club. The longer I resist, I think the harder it will be. So getting some experience with different systems at an early stage can allow you to try them more later on.

[luke warm]

i agree with todd... almost everyone i know has a system that 'fits' their personality... choose the one (sometimes two) that fit(s) yours... try to find a like minded partner and practice/play (emphasis more on practice) as often as possible... when it threatens to become more work than fun, stop (unless of course you and partner enjoy that, some do)

 

it's fun playing with lots of different people, especially if they're friends and especially if there's a social aspect to the games... but to me it's way more fun playing with the same person (or two) 99% of the time, playing the same system each time, talking about it, practicing it, improving it.. and adding to it conventions you both feel comfortable adding.. the important thing here is, both must have veto power when adding or deleting conventions... either 100% agreement else 100% ability to make one another *think* there's agreement

[awm]

Learning a new system will not improve your declarer play. It will not improve your defense. It will only marginally improve your bidding judgement or opening leads. If you're trying to improve as a player, it's probably better to work on one of these other aspects before learning systems.

 

So why learn systems at all? Some reasons:

 

(1) It may "shake things up a bit" to keep your interest in the game. Some of us enjoy experimenting with stuff.

(2) It may help you keep partner happy, or find new partners, if you'd like to play with people who prefer methods other than those you know.

(3) You may find something that fits your personal style and thereby improves your results. Some people like weak notrumps, or limited openings, and find they are better able to handle the bidding problems that arise with these methods than with more standard ones.

(4) If you're trying to do well in the short term, playing better methods may be easier than improving other aspects of your game. Of course, to win a major event you're going to need solid play/defense/judgement...

(5) It's a good thing to have lots of discussion with partner about common sequences. This experience is the foundation of having a solid partnership, and is an often-overlooked part of good bridge. While it's certainly possible to have a solid partnership (like Fred and Brad for example) without playing anything "unusual," playing non-standard methods forces you to discuss a lot of sequences, whereas playing something more standard it can be easy to be lazy on these discussions.

[bearmum]

Stick to sayc and 2/1 -- and ONLY the conventions you are really comfortable playing !

 

Lots of folk play Lebensohl, so when i strated playing online I found and 'explaination' of the convention (which ran to about 8 pages!). Because the system I play with my longtome life (and bridge ) partner - my husband- does not need Lebensohl I made a decision NOT to learn it -- so if I play with a partner who does have it on his profile I say "Partner please no Lebensohl"

The above applies to ANY convention and few players will get cranky if you can't play certain conventions. On MY profile on another sitethere is room to list the conventions that I am familiar with -- just wish there was room on my BBO profile to do the same :P

 

The biggest problem playing with an unfamiliar partner comes when defending against unfamiliar comventions -- and I have NO solution for that :)

[the saint]

I don't know a million and one different systems, but for any player aspiring to be a top-class player it is essential to be aware of the fundamentals of all the different major system types - Wk NT, Strong NT, 4/5 cM, Strong Clubs, Multi-Clubs (Polish/Swedish) which 99% of pairs play. The reason being - how can you play your best if you don't have an idea of what the opps are doing and what you can do best to stop them?

 

Its just like a football manager watching videos of his opposition team in advance to sort out his tactics. Common sense really.

[Free]

I don't know a million and one different systems, but for any player aspiring to be a top-class player it is essential to be aware of the fundamentals of all the different major system types - Wk NT, Strong NT, 4/5 cM, Strong Clubs, Multi-Clubs (Polish/Swedish) which 99% of pairs play. The reason being - how can you play your best if you don't have an idea of what the opps are doing and what you can do best to stop them?

 

Its just like a football manager watching videos of his opposition team in advance to sort out his tactics. Common sense really.

Agree with this completely! What I used to do is learning the opponent's systems. This way I got 2 advantages: I had more partners to play funny stuff with AND I knew the weaknesses, and what they're doing. This also helps in defense ofcourse, especially when you know what declarer DOESN'T have :P