Echognome Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 [hv=d=w&v=e&s=sjt85hdk973ckqt63]133|100|Scoring: IMP(P) - P - (P) - ?[/hv] You are playing relay precision. Partner can have as much as a bad 12 count for his pass if he's balanced. He will open most other hands on a rule of 19 basis. Do you open in 4th seat at teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 No, especially not when playing Precision where I must open 1♦. Pass seems to be the best chance to go "plus". But I would also pass in any natural system. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 No, I'd pass. I assume your opening bid on this dist. would be 2♦? (3-suited short in ♦). I won't bid that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 I pass too. We had spades ! Sorry, next board please... :) Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted February 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 My system bid on the hand would be 1♦ showing 4+ most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sorry you were short in ♥, not ♦. I still pass though :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miron Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Pass. Few points and just 4 spades (cannot open 1♠). Even if I had 5 spades I would be thinking a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 easy pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 I would definitely pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Pass looks clear. Its not everyday you pick up a 9 count looking at 3 green cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Pass, a lock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suokko Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Someone clearly forget to open and it's definetly not my partner (I could have forget to open but it's different story). I would pass. if changing points to aces there would be reason to try something but now values seems very bad. Opps are having more aces than our side. They have better chance to have the 18 hcp game than we have. Precision and opening with rule 18/19 makes this very easy pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Comment 1: Many of the individual's posting seem to be ignoring the potential that you'll miss a nice +140. Even +420 or so is possible. How would you feel if partner tabled ♠ AKxxx♥ xxxx♦ Qxx♣ x (While this is an opening bid playing MOSCITO, I'd expect many Precision pairs to pass) Comment 2: Like most posters, I'd pass. I'm worried about an auction like 1♦ - 1♥1♠ - 2♣ (4th suit forcing) which could easily spiral out of control. (If I were to open, I suspect that many of our best scores would occur defending...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted March 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Ah, I forgot to follow up on this hand. I passed which I thought was clear. Opponents play in 2♠ making 3 our way. I figured on another day, opening would have me go minus. So I'd live to fight another day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Comment 1: Many of the individual's posting seem to be ignoring the potential that you'll miss a nice +140. Even +420 or so is possible. You may also go -620 from opening. Obviously you can either go plus or minus from opening and you might have a game on and they might have a game on. It's just a question of whether or not you have +EV from opening, everyone who posted thinks to seem you don't. That doesn't mean we overlooked the fact that going plus is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 It's just a question of whether or not you have +EV from opening, everyone who posted thinks to seem you don't. This may be somewhat off-topic, however, I think that its a big mistake to focus on expected value without also factoring variance into the mix... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted March 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 If you want to include variance, then it should probably state whether you are winning/losing the match or you are the better/worse team. For a bidding problem, we should normally assume these factors are neutral and focus on the expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 It's just a question of whether or not you have +EV from opening, everyone who posted thinks to seem you don't. This may be somewhat off-topic, however, I think that its a big mistake to focus on expected value without also factoring variance into the mix... Why is that? The question didn't say if you were losing by 10 at the half, would you open? Or playing a team that is much worse than you, would you open? In any case, its pretty much impossible to calculate to Covariance between the score at your table and the score at your teammates table (without a lot of info on the 4 players and systems at the other table), so good luck on the variance calculation... This hand is not even close to a bid.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Pass -- I mean this hand doesn't even qualify using the Pearson count and there's no reason to believe that the opps. will take any other action at the other table. Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_BC84 Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 I don't know the Pearson count, but you have 25 Zar Points plus spade suit, so according to Zar this is a proper opener... (At the table I would pass.) --Sigi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 I don't know the Pearson count, but you have 25 Zar Points plus spade suit, so according to Zar this is a proper opener... (At the table I would pass.) --Sigi Pearson point count is a guideline for opening in 4th seat. In short, when deciding whether to pass out or open, open if(HCP + # of ♠ >= 15) Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Note pearson points only apply if the opening is marginal. Obviously a 0643 14 count would be opened. I've always found pearson points to be among the more silly evaluation schemes. For instance, it forgets about the heart suit. People don't always have a spade fit, so if you have short hearts that should come into the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_BC84 Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 I don't know the Pearson count, but you have 25 Zar Points plus spade suit, so according to Zar this is a proper opener... (At the table I would pass.) --Sigi Pearson point count is a guideline for opening in 4th seat. In short, when deciding whether to pass out or open, open if(HCP + # of ♠ >= 15) Atul Oh, I know that rule, only not by the name of Pearson Count. I didn't mention it because I thought it's obvious anyway, LOL :-). --Sigi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Note pearson points only apply if the opening is marginal. Obviously a 0643 14 count would be opened. I've always found pearson points to be among the more silly evaluation schemes. For instance, it forgets about the heart suit. People don't always have a spade fit, so if you have short hearts that should come into the equation. Amen. I have literly seen people pass out: - AKQJxxx Axxx xx after mumbling something about peirson. And as justin points out: Opening Axxx Kxxx x KJxx is a much better idea than opening Axxx x Kxxx KJxx since you have 2 suits that outrank your short suit in the 1'st example, but only 1 in your second (e.g. you are more likely to be about to out compete the opps and go plus with the first hand than with the second). So the way I see it:Open if its a clear openerIf its an absolutely bare min opener or less, look at piersonIf still unsure, look to see how many hearts you have and pass if the answer is less than 3... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Note pearson points only apply if the opening is marginal. Obviously a 0643 14 count would be opened. I've always found pearson points to be among the more silly evaluation schemes. For instance, it forgets about the heart suit. People don't always have a spade fit, so if you have short hearts that should come into the equation. Amen. I have literly seen people pass out: - AKQJxxx Axxx xx after mumbling something about peirson. And as justin points out: Opening Axxx Kxxx x KJxx is a much better idea than opening Axxx x Kxxx KJxx since you have 2 suits that outrank your short suit in the 1'st example, but only 1 in your second (e.g. you are more likely to be about to out compete the opps and go plus with the first hand than with the second). So the way I see it:Open if its a clear openerIf its an absolutely bare min opener or less, look at piersonIf still unsure, look to see how many hearts you have and pass if the answer is less than 3... Also, if you open extremely light in 1/2, or extremely sound in 1/2, you need to change the number in perison to something other than 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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