han Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 What do you think of each of these passes? [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 What do you think of each of these passes? [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] As you know I play 14-16 often so here is my take.1) 3D will force to game2) do not play drury so not sure who is showing what3) 4C minimum splinter...force to game.4) Clear opener even in 4th seat. will email and ask a couple of other 14-16 nt players for their take and post...edit1) 2 more votes for 2nt on this one3) 2 more votes for 4s on this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 First Pass: It'd be nice to be playing something like Keri here where you can invite and stop in 2♠. My tendency is to invite here, but it'd be effected by: (1) form of scoring (2) how often partner upgrades hands into and out of the NT range (3) whether partner's 2♠ accept denies four-card support. If it's MPs, partner upgrades a lot, and 2♠ pretty much denies four spades, then I think passing is right. Second Pass: Seems reasonable (more so if you open light). You've already made a try by bidding 2♦ and partner declined that try. Doubleton honors aren't the greatest thing in the world. Give partner: Kxx xxx Jxx AQxx and even 3♠ is in danger. Of course, this all depends on what qualifies for drury and what doesn't. Third Pass: I would like this bid more if the minor suits were reversed, since shortness in the suit partner opened is normally a negative. With a nine-card trump fit I would make a try here. Give partner something like Kxxx xx AKxx xxx and you have pretty decent chances, and that's not even an opening hand for most of us. Fourth Pass: I agree with this pass and would pass routinely (at all forms of scoring) unless partner expected me to open most 11 counts. The jacks compensate for the aces and 4333 hands are lousy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 1) I would have invited, ok the spade suit is not briliant, A, KQ are nice values, i.e. I have 9 HCP ( ... and a 5 card suit)2) dont play drury, i.e. no idea what 2C / 2S showed3) LTC tells me to go to game, 9 card fit the only issue is, we are playing MP ... either 4S or invite4) 1C for me, but it is close since you are playing light openings 1C, wtp ? .-) After all you have 2 quick tricks, which cant be said about all light openers. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 I agree with the first two passes, and could go either way on the fourth, but unless I'm misreading the auction I feel fairly strongly that you should make another move on the third hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 1) Fine at MPs, not good at imps. Another good hand for 2C followed by 2S showing a distributional invite. At imps I'd transfer and bid 2N. 2) Hate it. Would bid 4S over 2C, but would at least bid 3D over 2S. 3) I actually held this hand and my auction began the same and I bid 4S (which I thought was clear). Passing with 5-5 and 9 trumps and prime cards and the right stiff doesn't make sense to me. I can construct many balanced average 11 counts where game is good. 4) Like it, can go either way. If my agreement was light openings (which I don't have with anyone) and partner duly compensated I think I should open. In most of my partnerships we don't open balanced 11s unless they are very good and this seems more like an average 11 count than a 12. If my agreement were to open average balanced 11s then I would open this. Mainly a style thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 A. Pass could work, but another move is in order. The suit sucks, but this isn;t that bad of a hand. B. This is about the only hand I'd probably pass on. The way I play, pard has 3 trump and no shortness. This hand isn't worth a 14 count. C. This is a game bid, not a game try. D. MP's I open. 2 aces and its what the field rates to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Give partner something like Kxxx xx AKxx xxx and you have pretty decent chances, and that's not even an opening hand for most of us. You make a convincing argument for bidding 4S as opposed to game trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 1st hand is close but probably my choice (although from what you said before, your 14-16 NT is actually a bit stronger than that? in which case I'd invite) 2nd hand, a pass looks clearcut 3rd hand I'd definitely punt game 4th hand I'd open but don't mind not doing so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Ah but there are also the hands that don't usually make game: KQxx xx QJxx KQx Qxxx Qx AJxx Kxx Kxxx Qxx J9xx AQ Considering the opening style, I think it's likely that these 12-13 counts are opening bids. Most of us don't pass the opponents 2♣ with four cards support. But the first hand we have three top minor losers and aren't that likely to get rid of all the hearts. On the second hand we lose one trick in each suit unless the spade king is singleton or doubleton onside (unlikely given the bidding). On the third hand we might make if every suit behaves but it's much less than 50-50. It seems like an intelligent game try will get partner to accept with "pure" values (aces and kings) and pass with most quacky hands. I'm not convinced this is a case where "partner can't make the right decision" despite the fact that "not all hands with maximum values make game good, and some hands with minimum values make it excellent." If it was IMPs I would agree that just blasting the game is best, but at MPs a try seems reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 My take: 1) I agree with Adam -- if you can invite without going past 2S, this is perfect. Otherwise, I think I would still invite. 3) This is between GF and invite for me. I would force to game. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Ah but there are also the hands that don't usually make game: KQxx xx QJxx KQx Qxxx Qx AJxx Kxx Kxxx Qxx J9xx AQ Considering the opening style, I think it's likely that these 12-13 counts are opening bids. Most of us don't pass the opponents 2♣ with four cards support. But the first hand we have three top minor losers and aren't that likely to get rid of all the hearts. On the second hand we lose one trick in each suit unless the spade king is singleton or doubleton onside (unlikely given the bidding). On the third hand we might make if every suit behaves but it's much less than 50-50. It seems like an intelligent game try will get partner to accept with "pure" values (aces and kings) and pass with most quacky hands. I'm not convinced this is a case where "partner can't make the right decision" despite the fact that "not all hands with maximum values make game good, and some hands with minimum values make it excellent." If it was IMPs I would agree that just blasting the game is best, but at MPs a try seems reasonable. I don't agree with you about hand 2. Your analysis seems to assume a diamond lead 100 % of the time after the 1D opener. On a non diamond lead, the club ace will usually be onside so you get a discard. On hand 1 it's not so clear for the opponents to take their 4 tricks. Say you receive a heart lead and you win and lead a club up. Is it so clear for them to take the ace and cash diamonds? Maybe but it doesn't seem to happen that way in real life. What about if LHO has the AK of diamonds? He will lead a high one, and will it be clear to shift to a heart? If he plays AK A we will make. Etc. AND if we bid 3H I would not be shocked if partner tried 3N with his actual hand anyways so a game try wouldn't be much better. Hand 3 is a terrible 12 with 6 HCP in clubs. Hand 1 has the KQ of clubs (worst cards) and QJ of diamonds for 8 wasted points. Sure, sometime game will go down if you jump to it. The relevant times are when: 1) Game goes down and pard would pass a game try.2) Game makes and pard would reject a game try.3) You gain a trick by concealing your heart suit and not making a game try but bidding game (most notably via a heart lead or subsequent misdefense). In my experience concealment with a hand like this is a huge weapon. Besides I think 2 is more likely than 1 anyways (debatable). I think the more analytical types of players downplay the gains of things like point 3 in general or of getting a bad lead. Or maybe I give it too much credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Also on your third example a club lead is likely/possible in which case you can just hook and shake a diamond and are now in good shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Looks like I may be the odd man out here: I do not like any of the passes. Actually, I am close to Justin in my approach. Hand 1: you do not state whether you are practicing for imps, mps, rubber, BAM etc. At mps, I pass. At imps I bid 2N, not liking it. Ask me tomorrow, and maybe I will like the pass: it is that close. Hand 2: serious drury players have a lot of agreements in place here, and I do not know what 2♦ showed in your methods. That would have some bearing on my next move. I also do not know the lower end of your drury style: in two current partnerships, I play two different ranges. Assuming 2♣ showed a normal limit raise hand, I would not pass at imps. I would make a try: the precise try depending on agreements Hand 3: I would just bid 4♠. Pass is incomprehensible to me. Hand 4: I have 4 controls and 12 hcp and no rebid problem and no horrible wastage such as QJ tight. I would have to have miscounted to pass this. I know that the LTC is too high, but I only use LTC as a check for borderline hands. This is obviously an absolute minimum, but (oddly enough) I do not consider it borderline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 What do you think of each of these passes? [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s109xxxhaxxdkqxxcx]133|100|Scoring: Bidding practice 1NT(14-16) - 2H2S - pass[/hv] Hand 1: Well its very conservative. I wouldn't pass at imps but it could work. Passing at mps is not obsurd but will be very anti-field if partner has 15-16. Hand 2: I think pass is clear in my style of drury (starts at a good 8, so this sequence shows about 8-10), I don't know what your drury bids promise. Hand 3: I think pass is crazy. I think you are too good to even only invite with that minor suit shape (switch the minors and you only have an invite). Hand 4: Well NV vs NV at mps, you are suppossed to bid at every turn if reasonable to do so. Here partner expects a balanced 11-13, right? So a 4333 12 count with 2 aces probably wouldn't dissapoint too much. So I hate this pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 109xxxAxxKQxxx I really like to use stayman followed by 2S for these hands, but unfortunately we didn't have that agreement. We were practicing for a MP tournament so I passed. Partner had a 4333 hand with 3 small spades. 4S is down off the top but 3NT actually has some chances. Q9xxxQxAK109Kx We bid drury on many 10-counts, I thought my pass was very close. Partner had a 10-count with the stiff jack of diamonds, I was lucky to make an overtrick. AJxxxA109xx10xx I tabled Qxxx x AQxx K10xx, the opponents did well to lead a heart and hold partner to only 10 tricks. JxxA10xJxxAQxx Our agreement is to open good balanced 11-counts, and pass average balanced 11-counts. I still could go either way on this hand. Partner had Axx KQxx AKQxx J. Slam isn't good but happens to make (hearts come in, club finesse is on). This was a 3-table tourny, nobody was in slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 On board 3, pass was simply a bad bid. Someone (who could it be?) was way too much in a MP mode of going plus. Shame on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 hehe Matt, we have all done far worse. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 hehe Matt, we have all done far worse. :PNot me!!!! And you can't prove me wrong: I burned all the records :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 You forgot to burn all your www.bridgebase.com/myhands records.. still 30 hands that you played in the last month! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 1-- at imps you cant really pass this hand. Mp its a 50% -50% guess IMHO This hand show the biggest flaw in the standard bridge universe. To transfer and invite with 2nt ----pulling from the best partscore to the worst partscore is just plain stupid. You REALLY REALLY need to invite and be able to stop in 2M. and the 9-T♠ are important card on this hand. They can sometimes save you a trump loser. 2-- Can your partner bid 2h to say hes got a bit of extra ? If so pass is clear otherwise it depend on how light your Drury response and opening can be (both tend to be very light these days). With no special agreement or style ... i think every lead might help me so ill bid 2nt (forcing or not) 3--- Ouch ...passing with that is a lack of concentration or lack of experience. not close at all...luckily for you its was MP. You should bid game rightaway 4-- With no systemic contraint I can see no intelligent reason not to open this hand. showing a reasonnable lead, a 11-13 bal or some clubs lenght some defensive potential how can this be wrong... your partner could have 5M or 6M and be easily shut off of the auction. I would hate being in the balancing seat if i were your partner. I hope for you to this conservative week will come to an end. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 1. Pass is right at MP2. 4♠ is right 3. 4♠ is right4. Pass is right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Hand 4: I have 4 controls and 12 hcp and no rebid problem and no horrible wastage such as QJ tight. I would have to have miscounted to pass this. I know that the LTC is too high, but I only use LTC as a check for borderline hands. This is obviously an absolute minimum, but (oddly enough) I do not consider it borderline. Mike, I thought better of you. Even mentioning LTC on a balanced hand is more than I can stomach :( :P :P :P The reasons to downgrade this hand are of course the 4333 shape and the two Jacks. Against this, we have two well-working aces (ATx and AQ9x). I would pass this hand in a standard opening style, but open in the given style with Han. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Downgrading for 4333 is actually pretty closely linked to downgrading for LTC issues (but I agree with you, bye and large, that LTC is not a useful measure for minimum range balanced hands, which is why I don't pay much attention to it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mghmaine Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 1) Clear Pass 2) Clear pass 3) 4S. Pass terrible. Slam tries not ridiculous. 4) Pass in any seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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