Setting Up Team Games

[joshs]

I have this constant headache that in order to set up a team game, I need to leave the table I am at, and then type in the usernames of all the people who are going to play. Since I can never remember the usernames of all the people, I need to write them down on paper.

 

I would like to set up a team from the current table, where I can see the names of the people at that table. Ideally, you could right click them with the mouse and then select an "add to team game" option.

 

Josh

[Dwingo]

Assiging a person to a Team Game by right clicking on his private chat message works. So make them chat privately to you, by asking if they want to play a TM? When they reply, right click on their name in the Chat message and then assign them to the TM.

 

This will work only after you hit the create Team button. So you can't be at any table at the MBC or TM. So after hitting the Create TM button, use the back button to go to the Main Lobby. Your Create TM window will still be open. Now you send private messages to your friends in your friends list to invite them. When they reply, right click and select them

 

Godwin

[csdenmark]

I have this constant headache that in order to set up a team game, I need to leave the table I am at, and then type in the usernames of all the people who are going to play. Since I can never remember the usernames of all the people, I need to write them down on paper.

 

I would like to set up a team from the current table, where I can see the names of the people at that table. Ideally, you could right click them with the mouse and then select an "add to team game" option.

 

Josh

Certainly not as such will only revive the old days with many rude leavings of tables. I hope your intensions are not to aleviate your headache by imposing your problems to others.

 

Your proposal will just be heading more rude behavior. We need to minimize such.

 

If your mind is somewhere else than the table you are at then leave it in good order by the end of the hand. You will no longer be a credible opponent and all will welcome your leaving.

[pclayton]

I have this constant headache that in order to set up a team game, I need to leave the table I am at, and then type in the usernames of all the people who are going to play. Since I can never remember the usernames of all the people, I need to write them down on paper.

 

I would like to set up a team from the current table, where I can see the names of the people at that table. Ideally, you could right click them with the mouse and then select an "add to team game" option.

 

Josh

Certainly not as such will only revive the old days with many rude leavings of tables. I hope your intensions are not to aleviate your headache by imposing your problems to others.

 

Your proposal will just be heading more rude behavior. We need to minimize such.

 

If your mind is somewhere else than the table you are at then leave it in good order by the end of the hand. You will no longer be a credible opponent and all will welcome your leaving.

I don't think Josh has evil intentions here :)

 

If I'm playing while I'm setting up a team game, its no different than me multi-tasking while I'm playing BBO. BBO is windows based, so its easy to write a letter, develop a spreadsheet, check my e-mail, etc.. How are these activities different than setting up a team game?

 

Perhaps the other players could be notified however with a chat message that says something like "Joshs is setting up a team game", which might explain a slight delay in the play of the hand.

[csdenmark]

I dont think Josh has evil intensions either. I read his text as all the 4 players want to create a team match - and then the problem is not there at all.

 

But that's not the point - the point is Josh need to think longer than that. Such a feature is very simple to abuse in the way I described - and all to many non-serious persons we have. Josh ought to test a proposal with the lawyer of the devil before putting such kind of proposals up.

 

Multitask is an important feature for modern computers.

Multitask is ruining poison for human relations.

 

BBO is a platform for human relations and we are all best served in that way that actions are processed as near to natural handle as possible. A simple computerization of our daily life.

 

This means you need to move to be able to do something else.

[awm]

This is really pretty simple, and need not even have anything to do with multitasking.

 

Suppose I'm kibitzing a table. Lots of other people are kibitzing too. I get bored of just watching, so I ask the kibitzers if anyone's up for teams. Sometimes I ask the four at the table too. One way or another, I get eight volunteers. Now I want to set up the team game.

 

The problem is, to do this I need to leave the room I was kibbing and go to the "set up team game" room. This eliminates the list of people from my screen, and if some of them have hard-to-remember login names, I sometimes have trouble entering them into the menu.

 

This would all be solved if I could just enter their names while looking at the list of fellow kibs (and players at the table).

[hrothgar]

Multitask is an important feature for modern computers.

Multitask is ruining poison for human relations.

 

BBO is a platform for human relations and we are all best served in that way that actions are processed as near to natural handle as possible. A simple computerization of our daily life.

 

This means you need to move to be able to do something else.

Funny that...

 

Personally, I think that tolerance for other people's way of life is really a paramount value. You might perfer to focus obsessively on the BBO Window. Other players might prefer to playing Internet poker at the same time they're logged into BBO. They might be watching porn on Skinemax to boot. Either way, I don't really care.

 

What I do find annoying is getting lectured that there is one and one one way to do things... It betrays a very narrow mind convinced that his way of life should be imposed on others.

 

[edited by rain]

[Sigi_BC84]

I would not restrict this to team matches. I've often wanted to browse/register tournaments while I was dummy or kibbing somewhere. It is very annoying having to browse back all the way to the tournament menu to register (this leads to the issue that the navigational structure within BBO could use a major overhaul...).

 

At some places you are too restricted in what you can do because of the lack of multitasking. Non-conflicting actions should always be possible at the same time. However, this is often not easy to implement, especially if the software hasn't been constructed with these use cases in mind. So that might be one of the reasons why it hasn't happened yet in BBO.

 

I also would like to second Richard when he's saying that it's not a good idea at all trying to educate users through restraining them in their possibilities.

 

--Sigi

[uday]

Agree re. overhaul, but this is harder than you'd think. There is something simple about the original one-screen-for-one-task but the client needs to grow to better support the things like team-match-creation, tourney-registration, and the like -- things that are inherently not well suited for single-screen displays.

 

Unsure what our best action is.

[cherdano]

As an aside, I am not sure we need the font size feature for this forum. I have not yet seen it used in a beneficial way.

[Sigi_BC84]

Agree re. overhaul, but this is harder than you'd think.  There is something simple about the original one-screen-for-one-task but the client needs to grow to better support the things like team-match-creation, tourney-registration, and the like -- things that are inherently not well suited for single-screen displays.

 

Unsure what our best action is.

I didn't say it was easy or that I could design it properly within half an hour. I've got some ideas, however, and I've already promised to Fred to send him my propositions after I've thought it through.

 

At the moment you are mostly single screen, but a multi-screen (concurrent) design is already seeping through at some points: For example one can have a slice of the lobby view above the chat window, or a list of the tourneys.

 

Unfortunately, that's about it -- you can see the tourney list, but you can't do anything with it. I guess that's what should be changed next.

 

Maybe some kind of tabbed view would be nice, cf. OKBridge (I know that Fred deliberately designed BBO not to look like OKBridge, but some ideas are simply too basic and too good to be dismissed for such reasons IMHO).

 

Well, as I said I'll come forward with this as soon as I have some more clear and conrete ideas.

 

--Sigi

[inquiry]

Agree re. overhaul, but this is harder than you'd think. There is something simple about the original one-screen-for-one-task but the client needs to grow to better support the things like team-match-creation, tourney-registration, and the like -- things that are inherently not well suited for single-screen displays.

 

Unsure what our best action is.

How about a web-based team game application residing elsewhere on the internet. A BBO user enters their name as host, types in the names of other users for both teams,and presses a send button. If all goes well this somehow transfers the information entered into the server where the preson (if he had left the table) could have done the same thing.

 

Not very elegant, maynot even be very safe. It is just an idea.

[csdenmark]

I've often wanted to browse/register tournaments while I was dummy or kibbing somewhere

At my table you will have that option once - and once only!

[joshs]

I have this constant headache that in order to set up a team game, I need to leave the table I am at, and then type in the usernames of all the people who are going to play. Since I can never remember the usernames of all the people, I need to write them down on paper.

 

I would like to set up a team from the current table, where I can see the names of the people at that table. Ideally, you could right click them with the mouse and then select an "add to team game" option.

 

Josh

Certainly not as such will only revive the old days with many rude leavings of tables. I hope your intensions are not to aleviate your headache by imposing your problems to others.

 

Your proposal will just be heading more rude behavior. We need to minimize such.

 

If your mind is somewhere else than the table you are at then leave it in good order by the end of the hand. You will no longer be a credible opponent and all will welcome your leaving.

Huh??? I wasn't leaving the table without telliong anyone. In fact I am usually just kibbitzing...

[Sigi_BC84]

How about a web-based team game application residing elsewhere on the internet. A BBO user enters their name as host, types in the names of other users for both teams,and presses a send button. If all goes well this somehow transfers the information entered into the server where the preson (if he had left the table) could have done the same thing.

 

Not very elegant, maynot even be very safe. It is just an idea.

I'm not very fond of that idea -- it should all go directly into the client. Having said that, some additional functionality for team matches is badly needed. At the moment you can't hold competitions with more than two teams without teams having to sit out or arranging it all by hand if the number of teams is even etc.

 

Also, league play is not possible because one cannot use predealt boards in the events.

 

So, the following should be added:

• Swiss and KO mode for 3+ teams
  
• Ability to inject hands for all tables in the tournament simultaneously
  
• A league mode (i.e. the hands are the same on all tables, but the TD picks the pairings upfront)
  

--Sigi

[Sigi_BC84]

I've often wanted to browse/register tournaments while I was dummy or kibbing somewhere

At my table you will have that option once - and once only!

I'm sorry, I don't get what your problem is here... If I'm dummy on your table you won't even notice me doing something in the background. I might well want to register for a tournament that is starting later.

 

Apart from that, you really shouldn't impose on others what you might or might not want them to do while they are playing -- I'm sure your opps and partners will respect your wish that they focus on the game while at your table. You're not enforcing this by making the BBO software single-threaded (you might have noticed that everybody can easily run other applications in parallel to BBO, e.g. a web browser...).

 

--Sigi

[inquiry]

How about a web-based team game application residing elsewhere on the internet. A BBO user enters their name as host, types in the names of other users for both teams,and presses a send button. If all goes well this somehow transfers the information entered into the server where the preson (if he had left the table) could have done the same thing.

 

Not very elegant, maynot even be very safe. It is just an idea.

I'm not very fond of that idea -- it should all go directly into the client. Having said that, some additional functionality for team matches is badly needed. At the moment you can't hold competitions with more than two teams without teams having to sit out or arranging it all by hand if the number of teams is even etc.

 

Also, league play is not possible because one cannot use predealt boards in the events.

 

So, the following should be added:

• Swiss and KO mode for 3+ teams
  
• Ability to inject hands for all tables in the tournament simultaneously
  
• A league mode (i.e. the hands are the same on all tables, but the TD picks the pairings upfront)
  

--Sigi

Well, for the record, team games can be played with predealt boards.

 

1) create table,

2) immediately go to the team game lobby

3) click on green table button

4) click edit tournament

5) Choose upload hands

6) find files on your computer and upload them.

 

You have something like 90 seconds or 2 minutes to do that.

[Sigi_BC84]

Well, for the record, team games can be played with predealt boards.

Oh, this is nice. I usually don't setup our team matches and the person who does has told me he didn't find a way to upload hands. We've been overlooking this. This certainly helps with the league games (although some additional software support wouldn't hurt here).

 

Edit: On second reading that approach seems quite awkward, especially since if you want to emulate a league doing this, you'll have to distribute the hands upfront and designate table hosts and rely on the hosts setting this all up properly, within the "time limit". Sounds nasty.

 

--Sigi

[1eyedjack]

I've often wanted to browse/register tournaments while I was dummy or kibbing somewhere

At my table you will have that option once - and once only!

At your table you can set whatever table rules you like. And if others do not like them they may be only too pleased to reside elsewhere to play. The key is to enable flexible software, so that you can set whatever table rules you like, and others who do not like them can play elsewhere. So your comment does not appear to be an argument against enabling the software to multitask.

[csdenmark]

I've often wanted to browse/register tournaments while I was dummy or kibbing somewhere

At my table you will have that option once - and once only!

At your table you can set whatever table rules you like. And if others do not like them they may be only too pleased to reside elsewhere to play. The key is to enable flexible software, so that you can set whatever table rules you like, and others who do not like them can play elsewhere. So your comment does not appear to be an argument against enabling the software to multitask.

I don't argue against flexible and multitask software. Such is very important features. I really thought that was clear.

 

I argue against abuse such and for functionality to secure serious relations between those who have comitted themselves to that. Abusing flexible features are much too easy and we are not provided with flexible options to fight that.

 

You see I think very fine with much flexibilty for tourneys of all kinds but that little button which would disable sucking away from a playing table it is still missing. We are now very pleased to have the new convention cards we have waited for for years but the button to enforce use of it - it is not there.

[Sigi_BC84]

You see I think very fine with much flexibilty for tourneys of all kinds but that little button which would disable sucking away from a playing table it is still missing. We are now very pleased to have the new convention cards we have waited for for years but the button to enforce use of it - it is not there.

You might not have the flexibility of enforcing your table rules via the software, but you will be able to tell opps and partner about them. You can even boot them if they are not willing to obey (there is a button for that...).

 

The CCs you can't enforce because most people don't have one and it's much too cumbersome for 99% of the BBO population to enter their own CC into Full Disclosure. Again, you can enforce these for your table but don't be surprised if interest in games against you will strangely drop afterwards...

 

How about a button to enforce "good Bridge" at your table? I'd certainly like that, would probably make me play much better :-))).

 

--Sigi

[hrothgar]

You see I think very fine with much flexibilty for tourneys of all kinds but that little button which would disable sucking away from a playing table it is still missing.

Claus:

 

I am going to be quite blunt here. From the sounds of things you have a real problem with players who abandon your table during the course of play. I don't find this especially surprising. Given your set of expectations regarding necessary behaviour, I'd never sit down and play a hand with you.

 

I think that you need to spend less time worrying about configuring the software to imprision those poor fools who unknowingly sit down at your table and a LOT more about being a pleasant host.

[csdenmark]

You see I think very fine with much flexibilty for tourneys of all kinds but that little button which would disable sucking away from a playing table it is still missing. We are now very pleased to have the new convention cards we have waited for for years but the button to enforce use of it - it is not there.

You might not have the flexibility of enforcing your table rules via the software, but you will be able to tell opps and partner about them. You can even boot them if they are not willing to obey (there is a button for that...).

 

The CCs you can't enforce because most people don't have one and it's much too cumbersome for 99% of the BBO population to enter their own CC into Full Disclosure. Again, you can enforce these for your table but don't be surprised if interest in games against you will strangely drop afterwards...

 

How about a button to enforce "good Bridge" at your table? I'd certainly like that, would probably make me play much better :-))).

 

--Sigi

How about a button to enforce "good Bridge" at your table?

This I have advocated for years and will welcome such very much.

 

You can even boot them if they are not willing to obey

This is not allowed - Sigi please check rules for these sites. I think you know it is nothing but rude behavior

 

own CC into Full Disclosure

Convention card is the basic way in bridge for information. Full disclosure is mandatory in bridge. I am sure you know that! - In our Prealert/Welcome all are requested to load their cc. Nobody is asked for any special version - old version will do of course. But I think you know they all have 7 default cards ready to load in FD format and as I remember 2-3 in old format. For more specialized systems they are all offered free download of convention cards and system descriptions ready to use from my web-sites.

 

-----------------------------------------

What I normally read about proposals for flexible suggestions of software is that 1 person want to have flexible options. I understand and support that very much. No problem. But not to the disadvantage of the 3 other persons - thats the point.

 

Please check BBO rules for decent behavior. Nothing special as it is a simple lineup of normal standards for good manners in human relations. Good manners in Denmark, good manners in USA and I think nearly everywhere.

 

The sucking function has since it was introduced caused much problems and rude behavior. I want the flexibilty to guard against rude behavior. - That's all!

[csdenmark]

You see I think very fine with much flexibilty for tourneys of all kinds but that little button which would disable sucking away from a playing table it is still missing.

Claus:

 

I am going to be quite blunt here. From the sounds of things you have a real problem with players who abandon your table during the course of play. I don't find this especially surprising. Given your set of expectations regarding necessary behaviour, I'd never sit down and play a hand with you.

 

I think that you need to spend less time worrying about configuring the software to imprision those poor fools who unknowingly sit down at your table and a LOT more about being a pleasant host.

I am pleased to inform you Richard that I am normally host at tables I play at. I am very often thanked by opps. for nice, friendly, correct and enjoyable sessions they want to and in fact re-join.

 

When I am advertising for partner it is often so that opps. are lining up to have a seat as opps.

[Sigi_BC84]

How about a button to enforce "good Bridge" at your table?

This I have advocated for years and will welcome such very much.

 

You can even boot them if they are not willing to obey

This is not allowed - Sigi please check rules for these sites. I think you know it is nothing but rude behavior

Apparently you didn't get the slight touch of irony in my previous post...

 

What I normally read about proposals for flexible suggestions of software is that 1 person want to have flexible options. I understand and support that very much. No problem. But not to the disadvantage of the 3 other persons - thats the point.

This will be my last reply regarding this matter, as I don't see much common ground between us here. Let me say though that in my opinion you are on a completely wrong track. None of your "problems" will be solved by adding several "disallow-this-or-that" buttons to the BBO software.

 

You said that you have lots of online friends who like to sit down at your table to play with or against you. Why do you need all kinds of restrictive features then? Don't you trust these people to continue to well behave like they reportedly did before? BTW I have seen your tables and they quite closely resemble a fortress -- yet apparently you're still drawing problematic pickup partners. This is kind of a mystery to me, to be honest...

 

--Sigi