Hotel Internet Charges

[DenisO]

I hear we will probably miss vugraph coverage of an important UK event because of exorbitant internet charges by the hotel. They want about £2000 for a weekend.

Anyone know what sort of costs are the norm for a few days internet coverage on BBO?

[joker_gib]

I don't know but it's really sad to loose a broadcast due to internet costs these days ! :)

 

I think that every venue should have to be chosen after strong examination of the possible connection costs so that venues that are too expensive should be banished !

 

£2000 ! Am I dreaming ???? :o

 

Alain

[Gerben42]

I guess I wouldn't want to participate in that event on the notion that I couldn't possibly afford a drink in this hotel, it's bound to cost at least £10 also.

[Finch]

I've just come back from a long weekend skiing. The hotel (a normal 3* hotel, so nothing hugely luxurious) had _free_ wifi access (BYO laptop).

 

I don't know if it would have stood up to the BBO broadcast, but it might have done.... perhaps we should organise a late afternoon/early evening tournament there, and spend the days up the mountain, the afternoons playing bridge and the evenings eating & drinking.

[Walddk]

It's no secret, and the amount, £2,000 (US$3,490) is, sadly, correct. The event is the Camrose Trophy, second weekend, to be held at the Hilton Hotel, Newport, Wales on March 3-5.

 

I know of a few people who have tried to convince the management and other influential Hilton people that this amount is unrealistic, but so far no luck. So at this point it is likely that we shall have to skip the weekend as far as a vugraph broadcast is concerned.

 

Farcical in one way, deplorable in another. Part 1 took place in Dublin and was a success as you may recall. Part 2 ..... well, we may never get to see it. I think it's fair to say that the amount, £2,000, is daylight robbery!

 

Roland

[nikos59]

Is the Hilton management aware of the fact that several thousand

prospective customers will be angry against Hilton if they miss a premier

Vugraph?

[uday]

The acbl-in-memphis pays about 200/phoneline/day, IIRC, at most nationals.

[Walddk]

Is the Hilton management aware of the fact that several thousand

prospective customers will be angry against Hilton if they miss a premier

Vugraph?

Indeed, and not only that. A couple of bridge playing Hilton shareholders have tried to get in touch with them, and they did not even get a reply to their e-mails!

 

Roland

[hrothgar]

In all seriousness, put the "blame" for this problem where the blame is due:

 

Long, long ago the hotel in question made a decision regarding the appropriate tarriff for Internet connections. I assume that they gave at least some thought regarding how they might maximize their profit before establishing their policies. It's not at all surprised that the hotel is somewhat unresponsive to third parties asking them to please be nice and don't charge us money...

 

The major problem lies in the selection of this hotel to begin with. (Or, alternatively, the failure to get Internet Access for Vugraph built into the original contract). I don't know where things went wrong. Perhaps the tournament organizers were pigheaded and failed to appreciate Vugraph as a value added activity. Who knows: Maybe the Vugraph team failed to contract the Tournament Directors before the contracts were signed with the hotel. Either way, its hard to fault the hotel for following its established policies.

 

If it were me, I'd be looking for some way to sweeten the deal for the hotel: In an ideal world you might be able to advance an argument like the following:

 

The BBO client can be configured to display ads at login as well as banner ads during Vugraph. During the last broadcast of the Camrose, the online Vugraph attracted 3000 viewers, of which approximately 30% were from The UK and Ireland...(I'm pulling numbers out of my ass here) Would the hotel be willing to consider providing free Internet connectivity in return for some kind of promotional consideration?

[Finch]

I don't know the answer to this, but it may be that the hotel have no discretion at all and that everything is set by Hilton centrally, so offering the hotel incentives would be no good. Or it may be that Hilton centrally have no control over what their hotels charge for internet access. But we need to know which to know who to lobby.

 

As for the tournament organisers, bear in mind that it's becoming a genuine struggle, in England at least, to find venues for bridge tournaments. The hotels generally prefer weddings or football/rugby tours or similar at weekends, as they get much much higher bar takings and better room occupancy. By the time the organisers have found somewhere easily accessible to all the countries attending, with availability for the relevant weekend and not too extortionately priced they are probably gasping with relief before thinking of how much internet access is going to cost.

 

We can hope that changes for next year, but perhaps it takes something like this to happen before they start thinking up front about the issue.

[Walddk]

We can hope that changes for next year, but perhaps it takes something like this to happen before they start thinking up front about the issue.

I think Frances is right. Internet vugraph broadcasts are relatively new, and most organisers have not yet realised that they must take this aspect into consideration before they book a venue.

 

Learning the game the hard way, if you like. I am sure they will investigate before they book next time.

 

Booking first, then find out about the internet costs later is not much different from shooting first, then ask questions afterwards. The other way around would no doubt be desirable.

 

In this context it's worth noting that BBO does not want to get involved financially. We offer our software and provide expert commentators free of charge. It must therefore be up to the organisers to cover the internet expenses if they want to show their event to the whole world.

 

Roland

[Sigi_BC84]

Have you considered mobile (cell) phone access to the internet so far? I don't know what the situation in England is, but they might have decent UMTS coverage in the area of the hotel, which would solve the problem.

 

You'd only have to find a person with UMTS access or somebody will have to subscribe to a cell phone plan (which would still be way less expensive than 2000 GBP).

 

Maybe even standard mobile connectivity will be enough to run the Vugraph. You would be using GPRS with pre-paid traffic, dirt cheap (should be << 50 GPB).

 

I'm sure there are cell phone plans being offered in UK which will make this very affordable.

 

--Sigi

[inquiry]

In all seriousness, put the "blame" for this problem where the blame is due:

I blame Paris Hilton. After all, Conrad is long dead, and Paris is "all" over the internet... why I get email offers to see her picture so frequenlty I added anything with paris hilton on it to my spam filter.

[nickf]

Is the Hilton management aware of the fact that several thousand

prospective customers will be angry against Hilton if they miss a premier

Vugraph?

you're kidding right?

 

1) they wont care

 

2) you don't really expect that, say, the couple of hundred people (and that's a radical estimation) who might be slightly disappointed that the Camrose is not broadcast on Bridge Base might go so far as to boycott the Hilton chain? I just can hear Paris giggling in her Babycham now.

 

nickf

sydney

[Walddk]

1) they wont care

 

2) you don't really expect that, say, the couple of hundred people ....

1. I agree.

 

2. I disagree. Great Britain plus Ireland may not be as big as Australia, but it's hardly a tiny island close to the South Pole. Couple of hundred is way out of proportion.

 

Roland

[uday]

Is there anything we could/should be doing to try to talk the organizers into attempting a dialup link ?

[Walddk]

Patrick Jourdain, president of the International Bridge Press Association (IBPA), is the person in charge when we're in Wales. I'll create the contact if you want to get in touch with him. Let me know.

 

Roland

[Rain]

I think GPRS could be the way to go. Sounds as though this hotel is charging for a dedicated installation of phone line :D But of course that's not necessary. Its not hard to set up wireless internet in all areas. The hilton is just trying to gauge the bridgers.

 

T mobile uk is a possibility?

http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/Dispatcher?menui...nes_im_cc3g_wic

[hrothgar]

I think GPRS could be the way to go. Sounds as though this hotel is charging for a dedicated installation of phone line :D But of course that's not necessary. Its not hard to set up wireless internet in all areas. The hilton is just trying to gauge the bridgers.

 

T mobile uk is a possibility?

http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/Dispatcher?menui...nes_im_cc3g_wic

This might be easier said than done...

 

Within the US, companies have the right to prevent individuals from access competing Internet services on their premesis. For example, Logan Airport in Boston runs a fee based wireless Internet service. It has sued United and America Airlines and blocked them from offering free Wi-Fi in their first class lounges...

[mrdct]

How about some practical solutions?

 

1. How much will the Hilton charge for an analogue phone line? Dial-up is perfectly OK for BBO coverage of one or two tables sharing a single phone line and quite easy to set up.

 

2. In the event that even an analogue phone line in the playing area is cost prohibitive, how about just broadcasting from one table and put that table in a guest room with the bed pushed to one side? I believe screens aren't used in the Camrose, so there should be plenty of room.

 

Whilst hotel telephone charges tend to have an expensive flag fall (around US$1 per call at most 5-star hotels I've stayed at around the world) you should be able to get a prepaid dial-up ISP account that has a local or toll-free access number.

[mrdct]

From the Hilton, Newport Wales, website:

 

http://www.hilton.co.uk/property/1015_Room...6&rmid=11018443

 

"Hilton Double Standard Guest Bedrooms all have large double beds, a work desk, two telephone points, PlayStation, internet access, interactive televisions, trouser press and complimentary tea & coffee making facilities."

 

I would expect that internet access in the room would probably be around US$25 per day; still a rip-off but presumably affordable in the context of what they wanted for internet access in the playing area.

[Finch]

Whilst hotel telephone charges tend to have an expensive flag fall (around US$1 per call at most 5-star hotels I've stayed at around the world) you should be able to get a prepaid dial-up ISP account that has a local or toll-free access number.

That won't work. Typically UK hotels charge a (large) fee for dialling freephone (toll-free) numbers from the bedroom.

 

It's sometimes a one-off fee with no ongoing call charges, which would work.

 

But then you are back to the same question: would the organisers want to do that? Hilton hotel bedrooms are usually not very big* and it would quite uncomfortable to try and get a bridge table and 4 players and an operator and an official all together.

 

*true of all UK hotels, not just the Hilton...

[mrdct]

The photos of the rooms on the website look big enough to accommodate a card table, four players and a couple of officials - particularly given that they don't use screens in the Camrose.

 

I think it's a matter of will. If the people running the event really want it on BBO they should be able to find a way that doesn't involve paying two thousand pounds to the Hilton Group.

[Walddk]

I know that David Greenwood, one of the players from Northern Ireland and a regular BBO user and commentator, has forwarded all of this to the organisers in Wales. Let's hope that they come up with a satisfactory solution to the problem.

 

It really would be a shame not be able to broadcast from the conclusion of the Camrose Trophy 2006.

 

Roland

[Walddk]

I agree with Dave. Where there's a will there's a way. The Hilton management will hardly interfere with what people do in their hotel bedrooms.

 

Some read, some sleep, some watch tv, some take a shower, some play bridge and some do other things. Some even use the access to the internet. All perfectly legitimate.

 

Roland