Stop or Go?

[luis]

At the risk of being STONED by forum members, anyone for passing 13 hcp unbalanced hands with hcp in very short major suits in first and second seat?

I throw one stone :-)

 

Luis

[Chamaco]

I am expecting a 5-5-x-x shape and an absolute minimum game force but good suits.

e.g. AQJxx AJTxx x xx

Josh

 

I don't know whether it is standard or not, but with such a GF 2-suiter for responder, I JUMPbid naturally the 4th suit (3H over opener's 2C rebid).

[42]

I am expecting a 5-5-x-x shape and an absolute minimum game force but good suits.

e.g. AQJxx AJTxx x xx

Josh

 

I don't know whether it is standard or not, but with such a GF 2-suiter for responder, I JUMPbid naturally the 4th suit (3H over opener's 2C rebid).

I know a jumpbid to 4th suit as Splinter for the 3rd suit. But neither have I an idea whether this is standard or not.

[whereagles]

awm, that was a very good analysis and breakdown of the possibilities. I hadn't noticed the residue in the minors was 2-1, which makes a preference bid of 2♦ more attractive than 2♠. Besides, it allows pard to make a final move with 2♥ or 2♠ if he has that 16-17 hand which makes game a good bet.

 

Let me just make 2 comments.

 

1. Given the auction warns of likely misfit, I think it's reasonable to miss a good game or two on occasion in order to settle down in a safe spot. That's why I think anything above 2♠ is simply unwarranted optimism. Even 2NT.

 

2. If 3♥ were to be an invitational 55, I would say good intermediates or fillers in the minors are mandatory, in order to have a source of tricks in case pard bids 3NT. The actual hand comes short of that.

[microcap]

This game is funny--I have posted other hands that I thought were more interesting or complex and gotten far fewer and less thoughtful responses!

 

Hannie--sorry for forgetting a smiley face icon on that one post. Here is an extra one for you. :) :P :o

 

I was pleased with whereagles post, because while I am happy to take the brunt of the blame, it just didn't seem that it was so clear cut to me, and he was the first to point out that I had a legitimate point. Awm's post also illustrates the problems here.

 

And for the final word, I hereby post Rex's analysis. For those of you that don't know him, Rex knows more about bidding than anyone alive. He also can't count to 13 if you spot him one through eleven! :D :D :D :D

 

"Hello Jay,

 

There are a lot of helpful answers on the Forum.

 

It is interesting as you may remember that we just agreed, that is I asked

you, what a jump in the 4th suit is. You said 5-5 and strong. OK we have

an agreement. So how do you bid partner's hand?

 

I assume partner was playing that a jump in the 4th suit was a splinter for

your second suit and likely a double jump is EKCB for clubs.

 

One of the forum folks mentioned that a jump in the fourth suit should be

non-forcing 5-5. I think that and the splinter bid are the two likely

agreements. As I said I think partner played the splinter.

 

Is the jump to game weaker than the rebidding 3H? I think everyone in the

forum thought so. BUT that all depends on whether you play fast arrival or

picture bids. If I have no way to show a strong two suiter as a jump in the

fourth suit is not forcing or does not show H than the style I adopt

determines what the jump means. Picture bidders would jump to 4H with a

strong hand likely 6-5 or great 5-5 to describe the hand. With less they do

not jump. Fast arrival folks jump to game with less and go slow with better

hands. Neither is right or wrong but a question of agreement. As I do not

think fast arrival is standard it is just another area that needs to be

discussed.

 

Did you read the Bidding Lab in the Feb Bulletin? The convention there

covers this hand! 1D-3H showing 10-12 and 5-5 in the majors NF.

discussed, 1m-2H to show 5+S and 4+H, after himself and his partner. As I

have seen folks locally playing it and calling it "reverse Flannery" 2H I

would say it is not completely original.

 

All in all this hand shows why you need agreements. Partner thought he had

made a limit bid with 4H and you thought he had not.

 

This type of hand is a reason not to play FSF to game. 1D-1S-2C-2H-2NT-3H

NF describes this well. This is the style played by Pavlicek. Note that he

plays 1D-1S-2C-3H as forcing with 5-5 or 6-4 AND he marks this as an unusual

treatment.

 

Rex"

[000002]

1\1♦-1♠-2♣-4♥,this emphasize length and weakness,not strength;

2\1♦-1♠-2♣-4♥ this is natural,not splinter

3\1♦-1♠-2♣-2♥-2nt-4♥,it does NOT emphasize strength too

4\because 2nt guarantee one major honor, 4♥ leap deny a slam seeking unless i have certain 3cards honor.

 

my english is poor ,if anyone interest it i would try to interpret.