Stop or Go?

[microcap]

you hold [hv=d=s&v=n&s=skhq62dak532cj972]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] You open 1♦. 1♠ from p, 2♣ from you. 2♥ fsf from partner, 2NT from you, now 4♥ from partner. Do you pass or move for slam? For a change, this was not with Rex! LOL

[han]

I pass, I don't think that partner has shown any extra values so this seems easy.

[mike777]

you hold [hv=d=s&v=n&s=skhq62dak532cj972]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] You open 1♦. 1♠ from p, 2♣ from you. 2♥ fsf from partner, 2NT from you, now 4♥ from partner. Do you pass or move for slam? For a change, this was not with Rex! LOL

:)

 

Think of slam?

 

Worried game has no play :).

[luis]

Gotta pass, there is no room to try anything logical.

What the hell is 4♥? There is no need to jump to 4♥ when we already are in a gf situation.

[Guest Jlall]

I would bid as this hand must make a slam if it's being posted here. Let me guess, partner has a stiff club.

 

In reality I would pass.

[microcap]

Is it possible for responder to hold ♠ AQxxx ♥ Akxxx xx x ? That was my fear.... To make a long story short, we ended up in 5♥, down one when my partner held ♠ AQJxx A10xxx x xx. He was not happy with me, which seems justified from the responses. I just felt that my hand had gotten much better from the bidding and that slam wasnt out of the question. But clearly I am wrong, as usual.

[Kalvan14]

Since 3♥ would have been GF (and confirming 5 cards, btw), IMO 4♥ should be a hand without any willingness to make a slam try. Pass, wtp?

[tysen2k]

Since 3♥ would have been GF (and confirming 5 cards, btw), IMO 4♥ should be a hand without any willingness to make a slam try. Pass, wtp?

My thoughts exactly.

[HeartA]

Slam was very possible if pd has the right cards. But I was shut up by his 4H. I have to pass now. If we miss slam, too bad (blame it to partner :) :lol: ).

[microcap]

Thanks to all for facilitating my progress from a horrible player to a really bad one.

[joshs]

I am expecting a 5-5-x-x shape and an absolute minimum game force but good suits.

e.g. AQJxx AJTxx x xx

 

I do not expect slam to make opposite that hand or something similar but I am very happy to actually have a fit for partner so I have a happy pass. (partner knew I had at least Hx in hearts, but I could have had just 2 of them, so I am happy that we are in a contract that is probably making)

 

 

 

Josh

[Free]

Completely agree with Kalvan, 4♥ is TO PLAY, otherwise it would've been a 3♥ bid.

[whereagles]

Hum.. this sort of bidding opposite a possible misfit should not show less than a good 6-5, with a tendency to 6-6. That is, at least, how I would interpret it.

 

This being said, pard had no where near his bids. A lousy 5-5 with mild suits and no help in the minors is not exactly what you should have to blast to the 4-level without any guarantees of a fit. Heck, opener could very well have a 2254, 1255 or 1264 with 12 hcp!

 

Basically responder butchered the hand. And worse, he did it with unusual bids which failed to describe his strenght adequately. He got what he deserved.

[microcap]

THANK YOU MR WHEREEAGLES!!! You are the first to realize why I am right and my world class partner was wrong. He had NO business making an FSF opposite a potential misfit with an 11 count. I couldnt imagine how going to the 5 level could be dangerous when I have a great K♠, Qxx in his suit, and AK working in !D.

[luis]

THANK YOU MR WHEREEAGLES!!! You are the first to realize why I am right and my world class partner was wrong. He had NO business making an FSF opposite a potential misfit with an 11 count. I couldnt imagine how going to the 5 level could be dangerous when I have a great K♠, Qxx in his suit, and AK working in !D.

You can count with Mr whereagles support but I don't think you are right at all, even when your pd is 6-5 you will be missing 2 keycards, pd won't bid 4♥ with a hand that can produce a slam with your values. The key is not what you have the key is that your pd knows you can have what you have, so when he bids 4♥ you should just pass without even thinking. Your hand is limited by the 2♣ bid you can't bid past 4♥.

Yes you can have 2254 then just correct to 4♠ life is simple.

[cherdano]

Microcap, I think you were both wrong. I think your partner was right to force to game, but he should have bid 3♥ not 4♥, there is still a chance that 3N is better.

 

So you were right to expect more shape. But you had no right to expect a slam suitable hand, so you should have passed 4♥.

 

So in summary, your partner gave you a chance to make a mistake with a bad bid, and you took advantage and did the mistake. (At least you were on the same wavelength ;))

[han]

THANK YOU MR WHEREEAGLES!!! You are the first to realize why I am right and my world class partner was wrong. He had NO business making an FSF opposite a potential misfit with an 11 count. I couldnt imagine how going to the 5 level could be dangerous when I have a great K♠, Qxx in his suit, and AK working in !D.

You are not right, you are wrong for several reasons. Also, I don't think that your partner did anything wrong.

 

What is your partner to do with his hand, this 5512 11-count? Pass 2C? Bid 2NT? How do you suggest getting to 4H, the right contract?

 

It is true that 2H is an overbid, but it is the only bid that allows him to describe his shape (unless you have an agreement about a direct 3H bid). Your 2NT bid over 2H shows a heart stopper, so the jump to 4H seems obvious. It could be a 5-2 fit, but in that case 4H might still play a lot better than 3NT.

[inquiry]

THANK YOU MR WHEREEAGLES!!!

Unlike the rest of you, I think this thank you is sarcsam... See next sentence...

 

why I am right and my world class partner was wrong. 

 

Some of us have a sense of humor... :-0

[han]

I sure hope it is sarcasm.. but I doubt it. Perhaps microcap can clarify, online humor is often lost.

[microcap]

I am seldom serious about anything!! :P ;) :D ;) After pondering all the responses, I assess 70% of blame to me, 30% to partner as I still think he does not have a game force hand.

[mike777]

At the risk of being STONED by forum members, anyone for passing 13 hcp unbalanced hands with hcp in very short major suits in first and second seat?

[han]

Mike, I don't think that there is anything wrong with passing this hand in first or second seat. I don't think that bidding is wrong either, it depends on partnership style.

 

Microcap, I'm relieved that it was indeed humor, that was a scary post you made there! I apologise for my initial response, I didn't get the joke.

[whereagles]

Your hand is limited by the 2♣ bid you can't bid past 4♥.

Limited by 2♣? You mean.. limited to 18 hcp??? If something, it's 2NT that limits the hand to 12-13, not 2♣. Besides, if the 2♥ bid is FSF game-forcing, the 2NT bid can go up to 18.

[whereagles]

You are not right, you are wrong for several reasons. Also, I don't think that your partner did anything wrong.

 

What is your partner to do with his hand, this 5512 11-count? Pass 2C? Bid 2NT? How do you suggest getting to 4H, the right contract?

Well, I for one think pard did everything wrong. And I'm not joking.

 

1. Pard used FSF and then shoot at game. That must show at least SOME slam interest, since without it pard would/should have bid 4♥ instead of FSF. And I don't buy that "4♥ is a splinter in support of clubs" because that bypasses 3NT.

 

2. Pard didn't care for what you would think he has. He should have thought such unusual bidding might cause confusion and steer away from that.

 

3. The correct bid is not 2♥, it's 2♠. YES, TWO SPADES. That's the percentage bid that is more likely to keep you out of trouble in the long run. There is no sane way to reach 4♥ on this likely misfit. It requires taking a flyer, which may work.. or not. In this case it does, but that's arguing with results to me.

 

If microcap was the one with the 55 major, bid the way his pard did and found him with a lousy 2254, all of you would have given him the blame.

 

I know I'm alone, but I am also sure I'm right.

[awm]

Partner's bidding does leave something to be desired. On the other hand, partner has a legitimate problem. What's the right bid on a 5-5 majors 11-count opposite 1♦-1♠-2♣ (if you open super-light, better make it a twelve count)? It seems like the options are:

 

(1) Correct to 2♦ with doubleton. However, this risks missing even a nine card heart fit if partner has some pattern like 1444 or 0454. It also sounds pretty weak, and you won't get to game with 14-15 opposite 11, which might be okay some of the time, but probably not if partner has three card hearts.

 

(2) Rebid 2♠. Again you risk playing in an awful spot if partner has 1444, 0454, or 1354. This also undersells the values somewhat (no way partner is bidding on with 14-15 high and singleton spade).

 

(3) Rebid 2NT. This is perhaps the right "value bid" and partner might pattern out on the way to game (if you have a game). However, it might get you to some ugly misfitting 3NT games on 24-25 combined, and also will miss a heart fit when partner passes with a minimum 1444, 0454, 1354 hand (these hands may make 4♥, and in any case will probably play better in 3♥ than 2NT).

 

(4) Rebid 2♥, 4th suit game force. If this is forcing to game, it's something of an overbid. You have only 11, and partner could have 12 (or even less if you open aggressively). There's no known fit, and some indications of misfit. Of course, you're now very likely to get to the "best game" especially if you follow-up with 3♥, but there's also some risk that partner overbids to slam (or at least 5♥) on some hands.

 

(5) Rebid 3♥. If this is "invitational with 5-5 majors" then it's almost a perfect bid (although you still lose on the really ugly misfits where 3♥/3♠ don't play well). But does everyone play this bid as 5-5 majors invite? I'm not sure this is standard, and while it's a reasonable agreement I bet a lot of established partnerships don't play it this way, or haven't discussed it. Without discussion, I'd be scared to make this bid as it could be interpreted as anything from natural and weak to natural and game force to a splinter in support of clubs.

 

As for opener's bidding, I'd pass 4♥. Even if partner has something like:

 

AQJxxx

AKxxx

x

x

 

Slam still requires the 3-2 heart break and probably a 4-2 spade break as well. This is likely a bit better than 50%, but not much better. I think that 4♥ (fast arrival) should show a weaker hand than 3♥, so this example is very maximum. Partner could easily have two small clubs in which case even the five level is not very safe. I agree that partner's actual hand is weaker than expected. Nonetheless there's plenty of blame to go around on this hand.