Is this THAT controversial?

[kenrexford]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sq932hj10dk10432cj2]133|100|Scoring: IMP

Playing 2/1 GF or SAYC[/hv]

 

This question was posed to about a dozen extremely successful tournament players, with several different theories.

 

One doubled.

 

Three bid one spade, one claiming this was barely enough.

 

Most passed, claiming this is too weak to bid One Spade.

 

One claimed anything but pass was insane.

 

No one bid 1NT.

 

In commenting, please explain the parameters for a minimum 1S response (whether you did this or did not) and why. If you picked "other" or 1NT or double, please explain also.

[han]

1S, just as I would without the 1D call.

[MickyB]

Ditto, although I think a pass is fine if you want to have a free bid promise slightly more. Swings and roundabouts

[mike777]

I am shocked but glad to see so many decent players thinking a free bid means you got something. I thought that old fashioned thinking had gone out of style.

 

Hope to see more of this issue discussed and debated of what a free raise or free bid in competition should show in winning bridge.

 

Thanks for posting this in the forum.

[benlessard]

Easy pass.

 

If my left hand bid 1s ill be happy to have passed if he bid 1h or pass partner will be well placed to introduced spades or rebid his clubs.

 

If partner X ill bid just 1s . Not enough to pass nor bid 2s

 

 

 

Defending or playing a 1 level contract isnt a rare disease.

[Guest Jlall]

1S, but I would have bid 1D had RHO passed :lol:

[helene_t]

1♠ (which I consider to be standard) with an unknown partner, allthough I have a slight preference for Pass. If I have to bid with this hand, I prefer 1♥ as a transfer to spades. I know some partnerships double with this hand but that's beyond me (and certainly not something ou should do with an unknown pd).

 

I don't realy want a spade lead. And I don't really want partner to raise with three-card support, allthough he must have ruffing value. Also, if we have a spades fit we will probably find it anyway: LHO will probably bid 1♥.

 

I'm glad nobody bid 1NT, that would be an awfull bid, unless playing Acol.

[akhare]

Close call between P and 1♠ -- 1N is an abomination IMO. The ratty ♠ suit and poor values might persuade me to pass if I can do it in tempo...

 

Atul

[Chamaco]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sq932hj10dk10432cj2]133|100|Scoring: IMP

Playing 2/1 GF or SAYC[/hv]

 

This question was posed to about a dozen extremely successful tournament players, with several different theories.

 

One doubled.

 

Three bid one spade, one claiming this was barely enough.

 

Most passed, claiming this is too weak to bid One Spade.

 

One claimed anything but pass was insane.

 

No one bid 1NT.

 

In commenting, please explain the parameters for a minimum 1S response (whether you did this or did not) and why.  If you picked "other" or 1NT or double, please explain also.

 

Alright, at the cost of sounding too rigid, I'll try to formalize verbally more or les the guidelines I try to follow.

The rules are not that rigid, but I guess you get the idea :-)

 

In my opinion, a 1S free bid should guarantee:

- either overall 8 hcp, regardles of whether they are quacks or not;

- about 5+ hcp (with at least 1 K) outside opps suit (unless we hold an Ace in opp suit).

 

The above requirements can be shaded if we hold extra shape. (55+, or a 6+ bagger). With balanced or semibalanced hands (including 5422), I stick to the listed requirements.

 

In my opinion this is true especially if pard's opening is not ultrasound.

 

As I wrote in another post, although I am a big believer in the "In quick/out quick" principle, I have recently experimented with passing such hand types, and the pluses seem to have been superior to the minuses.

 

Especially, when it's opps' hands, having passed made declarer misguess the side suits much more often.

 

However, I guess that in a MP anything goes.

[mr1303]

Hmm, a close one. I virtually never pass with hand of this strength unless I intend to defend at the 1 level, which I don't holding this hand.

 

I think I'll pop in 1S, and not bid again unless I'm forced to. However, I think that 1NT is reasonable, since if I'm going to be in a game, 3NT looks superior as the opposition may get diamond ruffs.

 

I wouldn't double in a month of Sundays.

[P_Marlowe]

1S, wtp?

 

It is a minimum response, but this statement is true,

even if you consider the auction without the interference.

 

In the later case, I would bid 1D, but lots of people would

bid 1S.

 

Marlowe

[whereagles]

The hand is quite dreadful in offense. Pass seems sensible, though I wouldn't argue with 1♠ at matchpoints.

[badderzboy]

Easy pass for me as 1♠ promises 5 for me here

 

but it depends what your agreements are I play negative free bids here so dbl ( values doesn't promise both majors)/cue or my only forcing bids...

 

If partner dbls I can bid ♠'s next or NT to show my hand

 

Steve

[david_c]

Well I voted 1NT. Unfortunately, on closer inspection it appears that I have four spades. Oops! Okay, 1♠ is probably better in that case. :P

 

Mind you, I don't think that 1NT is a bad bid. It could easily be the right place to play, and we might not get there if partner has five clubs. Perhaps it's a reasonable shot at MP.

 

As an aside, my preference when playing better minor is

dbl = 4 spades, doesn't promise any hearts

1♥ = 4+ hearts

1♠ = 5+ spades

 

That would work well here.

[000002]

why to bid after 1♦ competition?

[ArcLight]

What can we tell about pards hand?

Overcaller probably has 5 diamonds, we have 5, leaving 3 left.

Pard probably has 1 or 2 diamonds.

 

I'm guessing pard has 5 clubs,1/2 Diamonds, and 3-3 or 4-2 in the majors.

We may end up in a 4-3 fit in Spades, or 4-2 or maybe 4-4.

 

Overcaller probably doesn't have 5 hearts, maybe 4? Or less? Whats his shape? 3-3-5-2?

 

Do the opps have a likely part score? In hearts?

 

If we pass, and pard doubles we may get a nice penalty.

Opps may run to a bad fit at a higher level.

 

Pass.

[cherdano]

I voted 1♠ but on reflection I like pass better. There is a good chance partner has a singleton, in which case my ♦K is wasted (except when playing NT), there is no hurry as opponents are not going to crowd the auction by a jump in diamonds, and partner will compete anyway.

 

Arend

[kenrexford]

One of the top-notch players I discussed this with bid 1S (he provided the problem). His explanation was (1) 1S shows this general strength, (2) 1S preempts 1H, and (3) he likes his Jx of clubs, enough to likely fill in and bolster Opener's probable six-card suit, or even KQxxx, KQ10xx, AQxxx, whatever.

 

If you elect to pass, then 1S must show something better, obviously. If so, then Opener needs less to invite or go to game, which may be critical in the event of interference. Diamond interference is remote, and wild heart leaping seems remote, so the idea of protecting OUR side from preemption seems frivolous. However, the free bid principle seems to lead to the conclusion that 1S should show either greater strength or tactical reasoning.

 

Along these lines, I can see that 1H should have similar problems (reverse the majors). Now, you fear THEIR spade interference and may need to act with lesser values. On the other hand, 1H does little to preempt them and, therefore, suffers the loss of the tactical advantage from obstruction.

 

The odd thing is that this simple, probably recurring auction yields great controversy. Give opener a hand like Jxxx-Axx-void-AK10xxx. The style on bid/pass with the example determines how strong Opener should act. Add or subract features to this hand and other problems arise. What is needed IN THIS AUCTION for a Splinter, for a mini-splinter (if used), for a Walsh Fragment (4C), for a cue, then bid game, etc.

 

We all have parameters for a simple response, but apparently great ambiguity exists as to parameters for a one-level free bid. Strange, eh?

[joshs]

Well I appear to be in the minority here. I am a passer. I don't have any strict rules for how good of a hand to make a free bid here. I think of it in terms of offensive inclination. This hand is pretty defensive, especially if the opps stay in 1D.

 

Considerations:

1. Is this a penalty pass of 1D? I don't think so, but its close. One more diamond spot would do it for me.

2. How happy will I be to play in a 4-3 spade fit? Not happy at all.

3. How badly placed am I after: 1C-1D-P-1H-P-2H-?

Well pretty badly placed, since my hand is not really good enough to x (e.g. I didn't have a legit penalty pass the last time), but its close. I would probably pass again here, but I don't mind a x (shows a penalty pass of 1D and some defense vs hearts, although not a stack). If partner strangely leaves it in, we might beat it. :blink:

4. If if goes 1C-1D-P-P-x-P-? what do I do. I think I would bid spades at that point, but maybe I should bid NT. The communication will be better in spades if partner has 4, but in either case I think I can make 1 of either.... ;)

 

 

Josh

[Kalvan14]

1♠ for me. The free-bid concept is a bit outdated.

[mike777]

1♠ for me. The free-bid concept is a bit outdated.

Ahh to the woodshed for such logic....something is not winning bridge for no other logic than being outdated?

 

A free bid is still a free bid, what it means, what values it promises and what is winning bridge style can be debated and bantered back and forth :).

[Double !]

i would probably bid 1 spade, but i can see where partner might have a rebid problem on this hand, especially if 2425. Perhaps passing is better. if partner re-opens with a dbl, then I can bid spades. if partner re-opens with 1H, then i might bid 1NT. all of this is assuming that lho passes. however, lho might not pass. If so, I think i would have preferred to get my spade bid in quickly.

so, my vote swings back to 1 spade.

 

DHL

[HeartA]

Easy pass.

 

If my left hand bid 1s ill be happy to have passed if he bid 1h or pass partner will be well placed to introduced spades or rebid his clubs.

 

If partner X ill bid just 1s . Not enough to pass nor bid 2s

 

 

 

Defending or playing a 1 level contract isnt a rare disease.

ditto.

[Kalvan14]

1♠ for me. The free-bid concept is a bit outdated.

Ahh to the woodshed for such logic....something is not winning bridge for no other logic than being outdated?

 

A free bid is still a free bid, what it means, what values it promises and what is winning bridge style can be debated and bantered back and forth :lol:.

If 90% of good bridge players have abandoned the concept of free bids, I'd assume that there must be a reason.

[P_Marlowe]

1♠ for me. The free-bid concept is a bit outdated.

Ahh to the woodshed for such logic....something is not winning bridge for no other logic than being outdated?

 

A free bid is still a free bid, what it means, what values it promises and what is winning bridge style can be debated and bantered back and forth :lol:.

If 90% of good bridge players have abandoned the concept of free bids, I'd assume that there must be a reason.

Marshall Miles, no advocate of the free bid theory said,

there has to be some merit, if a player like Alvin Roth

still believes in the free bid theory.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: In chess you can observe, that certain openings

die, not because they are bad or out dated, but because

it is trendy to play something els.

The trend starts because someone is very successfull

playing something other.