pass, raise or bid hearts..

[han]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sxxh108xxdq109ckjxx]133|100|Scoring: MP

1C-(1D)-??[/hv]

 

Here is a hand a friend of mine had at the Denver nationals. He was playing 2/1 with 12-14 1NT openings, and raised his partner's 1C opening to 2C after the opponents overcalled 1D. Do you agree?

[Guest Jlall]

I would bid 1H (for lead directing value and because of my extras).

 

In all seriousness, the game is MP, hearts is higher than diamonds, we may just have a heart game (my hand isn't hopeless) or partscore and we won't find it if I bid 2C.

[whereagles]

Bidding 2♣ here is wrong because pard will bid 2NT with the 15-17 hand and that might leave you to play 2NT on 21-23 points. Statistically a bit tight.

 

1♥ is much, much better since it allows pard to rebid 1NT with the 15-17 hand.

[luis]

I think I would have passed.

[Al_U_Card]

Dbl, for me 1H would tend to show 5 and I can convert 1S to 1NT and not feel too bad about my D cards.

[Kalvan14]

1♥. No reason to be ashamed.

[Free]

Depends on your agreements of 1♥ and Dbl, but I'd show ♥. The double fit will cover for the poor ♥s.

[luke warm]

1♥ ... btw, double here should show both majors

[mghmaine]

It seems 1H risks a raise with 3, perhaps under pressure. It is hard to hate 2C. Surely if you have a H game you will find it, but perhaps not a partscore.

Dbl showing both Ms is not universal BTW.

[mike777]

Pass. Easy so far.

 

Without any experience with this NT range may I assume:

1) Partner will play me for 5-6 working hcp? Often balanced or semibalanced?

2) If so then I may only need to show my shape later if need be?

3) If LHO shows a weakish hand, do I play partner for 15-17 balanced?

 

My next bid may be difficult.

[Double !]

I would likely respond 1 heart. I am assuming that P has a balanced 15-17 until told otherwise. If I raise to 2C, I run the risk of fixing partner who might not be able to bid 2NT due to lack of diamond stopper. And it will be at the 2-level before the partnership will be able to explore for a possible 4-4 major fit. My feeling is that one should make the bid one normally would have made in response to 1 club because opener either has shape with a club suit (with or without a second suit) or else has a balanced hand with extrat values. The weak NT permits exploration for a 4-4 fit on hands that might normally play in 1NT if playing 15-17 1NT, but it also loses the chance to explore for 4-4 major fits on hands that 15-17NT player would find. Don't lose your chance to search for the major fit: the structure of the system is to enable such a search. And one still has checkbacks available to reveal a 5-3 fit. So 1H need not show 5+ hearts. One can always correct to clubs without showing extra values if necessary.

Hope this make sense.

 

DHL

[Guest Jlall]

Pass. Easy so far.

 

 

My next bid may be difficult.

Maybe that's why you should bid now. Bidding early and getting it off your chest is always better than passing and guessing later at a higher level after the opps have exchanged more info.

[mike777]

Well that is one big issue.

 

1H says 4+ hearts and a very wide range of hcp, wide range of suit quality also.

 

With pass partner may play me for 5-6 working hcp and no decent suit to bid.

The good news is pass really limits my hand in such a way partner can make alot of reasonable assumptions that are correct! The bad news is finding a 4-4 heart is harder to find depending on how the auction proceeds. As I said I would also pass playing 16-18 nt opening so not sure what hand I should assume for partner playing 12-14, long clubs unbalanced or strong nt hand seems normal guess.

[almightygozar]

Interesting discussion. I thought I'd post my $1/50 since I was the panel member who initially praised the 2♣ response. The reasons I liked 2♣ were because

- it directs a good lead if we end up defending

- it preempts opps out of possible spade fit

- it shows our values in one bid

- I won't be happy if pard raises 1♥ with only 3

- even if it misses a heart fit or 1N contract, we still might score as well (or better) in clubs

 

The biggest problem hand where 1♥ wins is when pard was 4423, and even then we might win by stopping in 2♣ (or 2N if he has 17-19) instead of reaching a poor 3♥ or 4♥ contract.

 

For those who vote pass, you are missing one of the biggest advantages of playing a 12-14 NT: when partner opens 1♣ or 1♦, you know he has a real hand, with either 15+ or a 5+ card suit and some shape. This is especially true if you try to open suitable 5422-shaped hands with 1NT, which my group does.

 

I like the discussion, and it's making me take a closer look at the merits of 1♥, but for now I'm sticking with my guns. Thanks for posting, Hannie!

[Guest Jlall]

As for this fear of partner raising with 3 hearts, often LHO will bid and then partner has a support X available.

 

If LHO does not bid, partner will often have 4 spades and probably will bid 1S or 1N instead of raise hearts with 3.

 

If partner does not have 4 spades and does happen to raise with 3, that's fine with me as they can make spades most likely.

 

If partner jumped to 4H over our 1H bid in a weak NT context I would expect to make. This is a good scenario. Since a simple raise would show the equivalent of 15-17 balanced, a X jump is about the equivalent of 18-19, so a triple jump will be a very good hand.

 

I wouldn't say the time 2C loses the most is when partner has 4423. Any time you have a heart partscore it will probably lose since you won't find it. Any time partner with 16 or 17 decides to bid 2N (wouldn't he?) when he would have bid 1N over 1H, you will either break even or lose. If you have a heart game you will either break even or lose (usually lose).

 

Welcome to the forums.

[kenrexford]

I keep thinking about the logic of this hand, and I come to the same conclusion.

 

If I held a four-card major, I would bid it, right? Start with this assumption. If this is correct, then NOT bidding a major should imply 7+ cards in the minors. With five clubs, I'd probably bid 2C, and with five diamonds I might pass, hoping for a reopening double. In any event, a 1NT call should imply some club length.

 

Thus, 2C seems a bit redundant. 1NT seems better. I announce my stopper, general strength, and lack of serious club length. I preempt 1S. Sure, I might miss a heart fit, but finding a heart fit might be worse, as it encourages 2S competition, which I abhor and fear. The Q10x in diamonds bolsters my thinking, because I am less concerned about protecting partner's Kx than I would be with Qxx.

 

Plus, partner tends to expect hidden majors after 1NT more than after 2C.

 

I am a tad concerned about right-siding the NT contract, but the other benefits seem to outweigh this cost. I might even right-side a heart contract, if partner is something like 3415 with a great hand.

[Codo]

I would pass too. If this is a partscore battle, it is not yet over.

If my pd has a strong NT, he will bid, if he has long clubs, he will bid too.

 

Of course one bad thing can happen: LHo preempts,

But the downsides of bidding 2 Clubs (not able to find the Heart fit) and 1 Heart ( This emphazise the wrong pattern of the hand. You don`t want a heart lead, you don´t want to play in a 4-3 fit and you don`t want to show a range from 5 to 25 HCPs for your hand) are bigger - im my opinion.

[Gerben42]

I would bid 1♥.

Second alternative Pass. 2♣ is terrible.

[mr1303]

I have a simple rule. If I'm only going to make one bid with a hand (and this is one of those hands) and I have a choice between bidding a suit of my own and supporting partner, I raise partner (unless my partner is rubbish, but that's another matter).

 

Hence I bid 2C, and don't think twice about it. If partner has good hearts he can bid them himself.

[Gerben42]

That's a good rule but not on this hand. You don't know if you have a fit for partner as you are playing standard American. Playing Acol I would have more sympathy for 2♣.

[Chamaco]

I would pass although I can nderstand bidding 1H.

 

Only 3 hcp outside opps suit is a bit light to make a free bid.

 

Also, we do not have extra shape, hence, I expect that if bidding is right, then partner will have the right shape to take action.

 

Sure, opps might bounce to a number of diamonds, but with this shape I prefer to be conservative this time.

 

Bidding 1NT would be appealing if only I had a few more high cards, it does not appeal to be to make a 1NT free bid with 5 hcp.

 

 

Perhaps I am just getting used to play with partners who like to open light, but I believe that even in a weak NT context, passing this hand will be right more often than not, even if I am a big believer of the "in quick- out quick" principle.

[mr1303]

Well, I'm assuming standard "standard American" when 1C promises 3 cards, not a "short club" structure.

 

Just because a 1C opening can be on three cards, there's no reason to guarantee that it IS on three cards. In fact I read somewhere (I forget where) that 90%+ of the time a 1C opening in Standard American has 4 or more clubs. That's plenty good enough odds for me.

 

So 2C it is.

[david_c]

I never agree with Mark, but my initial reaction was to bid 2♣ here, so something must be wrong ...

 

What's wrong is that we're playing a weak NT. If we were playing a strong NT then it would be clear to bid 2♣ in my opinion. But in a weak NT system opener rates to have a 15-16 balanced hand on this auction, in which case the hand probably belongs to us in 1NT. So probably 1♥ is best. But I think 2♣ is an intelligent bid, and pass is also very close.

[000002]

1♥ is the worst bidding for his poor strength on ♥ & whole;1NT better than 1♥ since we can not ignore the 1♠ competition;but 2♣ is the best chioce because it remains the right position for a likely game contract player.