Bridge is Schizo

[kenrexford]

I'm not sure if this suggests that I sit around smoking a bong with bridge train of consciousness, but I got tickled thinking about what 2D means. It is truly amazing how many definitions to 2D exist.

 

As an opening, 2D might be Flannery, Weak, Strong, Mexican, Roman, Mini-Roman, Minors, Multi (many versions), Benjamin, Acol, etc., etc.

 

Add to this, when including responses and other auctions, 4-card drury, 3-card drury, criss-cross, forcing stayman, game-forcing checkback, waiting, game-forcing waiting, positive with hearts, jacoby transfer, inverted minor raise, weak minor raise, natural and game-forcing, natural and 10+, natural response to a takeout, a relay, a puppet response, no four-card major, no five-card major, forcing cuebid, checking for a stopper, a cuebid, an asking bid (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, other), Herbert Negative, cheaper minor stayman, majors, diamonds plus a major, diamonds plus hearts, a major, hearts, spades and a minor, a weak takeout, a strong takeout, fit-showing, clubs and hearts (weak), clubs and hearts (strong), etc.

 

No wonder I have a headache after a game. LOL

[Free]

You forgot Lorenzo 2♦ (0-7HCP with 4+♦, no 4M) and Ekren B)

[Gerben42]

For a complete overview of what 2-level opening bids might mean, check this out:

 

http://www.cavendish.demon.co.uk/bridge/weak.two/

 

BTW Free you forgot "natural intermediate" i.e. Fantunes style, Wilkosz, Rainbow (ask any regulator and they will tell you this is NOT multi B))

 

The good thing about it is: You can play only one 2♦ opener in your system. Pick ONE. Play what you are comfortable with and leave the zillion other meanings to other people.

[42]

Pick ONE. Play what you are comfortable with and leave the zillion other meanings to other people.

That is what drives one crazy: how can a simple soul decide which opening or convention is best? What is good for one situation is bad for another. One partner likes this, the other that. In this case I feel that knowledge does not clear the smoke, new fires start to burn :blink:

[Chamaco]

One more extremely common version of a conventional 2D response in italy:

 

1M-2D

 

2D =either a game force in diamonds, or a bust with 3 card support in the major.

 

Some players also include the invitational hands with an unspecified minor single suiter (shown later via 2NT lebensohl)

[Free]

Pick ONE. Play what you are comfortable with and leave the zillion other meanings to other people.

That is what drives one crazy: how can a simple soul decide which opening or convention is best? What is good for one situation is bad for another. One partner likes this, the other that. In this case I feel that knowledge does not clear the smoke, new fires start to burn :blink:

There is no best, there's just preference. Otherwise everyone would probably play the same. Sometimes one fits better in the system than others, but that depends. Some want to play destructive, other like frequency more, others just want to keep opps in the dark, some like natural NF preempts,... My advice: pick something you and your partner like, and experiment with new toys now and then.

[42]

Ken, are you ready with the reflections about 2♦? Take another cigar (or what a bong is :blink:) and let's start with 2NT: strong opening; both minors weak // Lebensohl, Scrambling, Jacoby,..... ;)

[inquiry]

Think a long time before you give up 2♦ as weak preempt in ♦'s. This is a very effective preempt with very little downside. I say this, yet I play 2♦ as multi.

[Brandal]

There is no best, there's just preference.

Otherwise everyone would probably play the same.

Agree

 

It is alot more important having defenses against

the various conventions/bids opps throw your way,

than what you choose to use in your system.

[Al_U_Card]

Did anyone mention strong 2D (Goren?) I still see some in the main bridge club.....(no transfers etc. etc.)

[DrTodd13]

Did anyone mention Wilkosz? Anyway, I would guess most of the time you aren't in a position of having a finished system but lacking a 2♦ bid. If you are in this situation then I would think it is unlikely that you'll find many of the potential 2♦ meanings as potentially very useful. A system has to be designed in totality. You may engineer your system such that 2♦ handles hand types that are difficult otherwise. Or, you may engineer 2♦ to mutliplex other meanings to free up earlier or later bids. Anyway, my point is that asking "what should I use as my 2♦ bid" is perhaps a bad question.

[barmar]

This is one of the things that makes bidding so interesting and challenging. There are many things you'd like to be able to say about your hand, but only so many bids available. Some players like highly scientific methods with lots of artificial bids, others prefer more natural systems to reduce the taxation on their memory. Some need to play essentially the same system with all their partners because they have trouble switching, others can shift gears easily.

[kenrexford]

I once wished I had the right partner to play just one session with sixteen different systems played simultaneously, each system depending upon the seat and vulnerability (ours and theirs). I could do it, but I have found few who also have played 16 independent systems. LOL

 

If I remember correctly, at the time, my list was:

 

Standard

2/1 GF

Precision

K-S

Neapolitan

Roman Club

Rosso e Nerro

ACOL

Kitcerex

Ferex

Dorex

M.I.C.S.

Flamingo Diamond

The Official System

Culbertson, and, my favorite,

The Rabbit (no conventions AT ALL)

 

I could never decide which systems worked best for which seat and which vulnerability, but would it not have been grand?

 

By the way, I also forgot Toddler 2D.

[Free]

Good luck making up your conventioncard <_<

[42]

Good luck making up your conventioncard  :P

I strongly recommend a toilet paper roll; one is well prepared for each and every situation...

[Al_U_Card]

Good luck making up your conventioncard  :P

I strongly recommend a toilet paper roll; one is well prepared for each and every situation...

Perhaps if you make use of "Fool Disclosure"?

[DrTodd13]

I once wished I had the right partner to play just one session with sixteen different systems played simultaneously, each system depending upon the seat and vulnerability (ours and theirs). I could do it, but I have found few who also have played 16 independent systems. LOL

 

If I remember correctly, at the time, my list was:

 

Standard

2/1 GF

Precision

K-S

Neapolitan

Roman Club

Rosso e Nerro

ACOL

Kitcerex

Ferex

Dorex

M.I.C.S.

Flamingo Diamond

The Official System

Culbertson, and, my favorite,

The Rabbit (no conventions AT ALL)

 

I could never decide which systems worked best for which seat and which vulnerability, but would it not have been grand?

 

By the way, I also forgot Toddler 2D.

Aren't there only really 8 reasonable possibilities? 4 for vulnerability * 2 for whether you are first seat or second seat?

 

Oh, by the way, another 2♦ possibility is the Purple 2♦ used in the context of Purple Twos. Can't let my little invention die...have to spread the word.

[Free]

There are 4 seats, and 4 Vulnerabilities. This makes 16 combinations. 2nd seat V vs NV isn't the same as 1st seat V vs NV. In the first situation I don't want to open a strong 1♣ since my LHO has carte blanche to preempt :P

[Elianna]

There are 4 seats, and 4 Vulnerabilities. This makes 16 combinations. 2nd seat V vs NV isn't the same as 1st seat V vs NV. In the first situation I don't want to open a strong 1♣ since my LHO has carte blanche to preempt :P

I think that DrTodd was not suggesting that you treat 1st/2nd seat the same, rather that you consider whether your side gets to BID (which includes pass) first or second.

 

So if you're NS, you play the same system when N or S is dealer, and different when E or W is dealer (and you vary those systems by the four different vulnerability combos).

 

So 8 combinations.

[kenrexford]

Well, technically, you could have 32 systems, if the movement was right. You'd change based upon whether you were East-West or North-South. This can be critical to theory, because you know that more little old ladies sit stationary. Hence, your theory changes depending upon whether you are north-south or east-west.

[DrTodd13]

There are 4 seats, and 4 Vulnerabilities. This makes 16 combinations. 2nd seat V vs NV isn't the same as 1st seat V vs NV. In the first situation I don't want to open a strong 1♣ since my LHO has carte blanche to preempt :lol:

No....but 3rd seat V vs NV is the same as 1st seat V vs NV. You can't play a different system just because the first two people have passed. :)

[Free]

There are 4 seats, and 4 Vulnerabilities.  This makes 16 combinations.  2nd seat V vs NV isn't the same as 1st seat V vs NV.  In the first situation I don't want to open a strong 1♣ since my LHO has carte blanche to preempt  ;)

No....but 3rd seat V vs NV is the same as 1st seat V vs NV. You can't play a different system just because the first two people have passed. :)

HUH??? :blink: Anything I play with Toothbrush in 3rd seat is different from 1st seat, just because partner passed already! If you play strong pass, THEN you can't play another system obviously ;) but otherwise 3rd seat is nowhere near to 1st seat. Have you seen on what garbage people open in 3rd?

[helene_t]

Two new definitions of the 2♦-opening that I encountered recently in f2f tourneys:

 

- Undefined: When I asked opps what 2♦ means in their system they said the opening did not exist because they couldn't agree what it should mean.

- Molto: "Basically multi but don't take it too serious". Because some TDs say that you can't psyche or otherwise "abuse" multi and Muiderberg, the solution is to give the conventions some other names.

 

And then there's Jammer, of course.

[barmar]

There are 4 seats, and 4 Vulnerabilities.  This makes 16 combinations.  2nd seat V vs NV isn't the same as 1st seat V vs NV.  In the first situation I don't want to open a strong 1♣ since my LHO has carte blanche to preempt  ;)

No....but 3rd seat V vs NV is the same as 1st seat V vs NV. You can't play a different system just because the first two people have passed. :)

HUH??? :blink: Anything I play with Toothbrush in 3rd seat is different from 1st seat, just because partner passed already! If you play strong pass, THEN you can't play another system obviously ;) but otherwise 3rd seat is nowhere near to 1st seat. Have you seen on what garbage people open in 3rd?

A system belongs to a partnership, not an individual player -- you have to play the same system as your partner. So if you're in 3rd seat, he's in 1st, so you have to play the 1st seat system.

 

However, the definition of that system can include variations based on seat -- light openings opposite a passed partner, different NT ranges, Drury, etc.

 

But I suppose you can also consider the entire arrangement of the 16 systems to be your partnership's system. After all, a system is just a collection of agreements, it can be practially as complicated as you want.