Passing or pulling Xs of high level preempts...

[akhare]

Hi folks,

 

What guidelines do you folks use while deciding whether to pass or pull Xs of high level preempts?

 

Also, what would you do on this particular hand?

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=sj9762hkxxxdqxxcj]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

LHO deals:

 

(5♣) - X - (P) - ??

 

Would you bid any differently at:

 

1) All vulnerable

2) Unfavourable vul.

 

Atul

[DJNeill]

Hi foo,

 

I've heard it said that over a (4S)-X you pull only with a 6-crd suit. Over (5m)-X you probably pull even less. And frankly, Todd's doubles of 4M or higher tend to be an expression of the contract's chances, even more so after some bad boards. Know thy partner.

 

Todd'll say I'm wrong.

 

Later,

Dan

[joshs]

Well I pull with:

a. a very offensive hand OR

b. A mildly offensive hand, but slam interest

 

Otherwise I take the plus.

 

In this case you have a mildly offensive hand, but no slam interest (i.e. no reason to expect to go plus at the 5 level.)

 

Josh

[000002]

Hi foo,

 

I've heard it said that over a (4S)-X you pull only with a 6-crd suit.  Over (5m)-X you probably pull even less.  And frankly, Todd's doubles of 4M or higher tend to be an expression of the contract's chances, even more so after some bad boards.  Know thy partner.

 

Todd'll say I'm wrong.

 

Later,

Dan

no.

 

Over a high level(assume it's A) preempt, pull the double with the hand consisted in a certain offendsive tricks:A-1.when you decide to bid on A+1 level, of course, it need (A+1)-1=A.

 

for example:bidding:4♠-(x)-p-(?)you have to pull when you hold:

x

Kxx

KQxx

Kxxxx

The offendsive tricks is 6+: 3 on ♣,2 on ♦,1 on ♥, and some extra.so you have to pull,bid (6-1)=5,ofcz bid slam sometimes for it's extra.

 

Changing ♦Q to ♠,it's the verge to passout.Even though holding 2236 shape,many player prefer to pass it under favorable VULnerable.

[joshs]

Oh yeah, I also pull if I have a certain slam, but no trump trick, even if close to balanced. E.G. AKxx KJTx Axxx x since down 2 or 3 will be a bad score.

 

Its worth discussing what the difference between 5N and 6C is...

 

Josh

[Guest Jlall]

I've posted before some general rules. Over 4S or higher:

 

1) Never pull with a balanced hand. Doesn't matter what strength your hand is, don't do it.

 

2) Whenever you pull, always be expecting to make. Often partner has them beat in his own hand so to pull you need to expect a make. If you pull with a yarb, be aware partner might bid slam.

 

After this, try to look at what kind of honors you have. If they are in your short suit, or are Qs/Jacks/few aces, they are defensive. Try to pass with defensive values. Points in the opps suit are a big warning for bidding.

 

Pretty much don't bid very often. When you do you should have distribution, offensive values, and an expectation of making. Remember partner has a VERY wide range of shapes with these Xs, so over 4S X try and bid 4N to suggest 2 places to play whenever possible as opposed to bidding a suit.

 

Here your values are defensive, and you don't expect to make 5S. It may be a 5-2 fit. I would definitely pass.

[whereagles]

I don't feel like passing, so I'm going for 5♠.

[Kalvan14]

I can imagine a lots of hands opposed to which the posted hand is good for a slam; there are even more hands where there is no 5-level contract foir either side. I pass, and take the plus.

[mikeh]

I echo Justin's post: and only want to add that there is an old adage about dealing with preempts: when you are fixed, stay fixed. That is, after they preempt and partner doubles, you may well feel that passing will result in you missing a better contract, but unless you are very confident that you can reach that better spot, stay fixed by passing and taking the sure plus rather than risk guessing wrong.

 

On the example hand, partner would need a monster to make any major 5-level bid okay, and even then, it is easy to construct hands on which you cannot find the best spot: would any of us not double 5♣ with Ax AQJx AKxxx Qx? How are we finding 5♥?

 

Apart from this factor, remember that a high-level preempt significantly changes the original expectation about distribution. A slam that requires only a 3-2 trump break is, in the absence of other information, approximately 68% likely to make. Create an 8-1 or 8-2 split in a side suit, and that percentage drops markedly. So one generally needs more power after a preempt than without one.

 

It might be interesting to see what posters think is the weakest hand on which they would pull this double. In particular, Fred, if you read this, your thoughts would be illuminating: I don't get out much these days and so may be out of touch (if I ever was in touch) with current tournament practice :(

[keylime]

I agree with Mike and Justin under the guises of taking what is likely certain.

[Winstonm]

Bid any time you clearly dislike your partner and are ready for a new one or any time one of the opponents is a ex-wife and you are late on alimony payments.

 

Winston

[Chamaco]

Thanks folks, as many of you know, the topic of how to handle 5 and 6 level decisions is one of those most helpful bidding topics to me.

 

Just another question: could you post some example hands that would justify pard's double of 5C ?

(in other words, what's the minimum strength of thgis double, with a. balanced shape; b. unbalanced shape)

 

And, if opps open 5C, how do you handle strong 55 2 suiters ♥+♠ and M+♦ ?

[000002]

the example (1):

Qxxxx

xx

Qxxxx

x

 

Follwing (4♣)-x-(p)-?,or 1♣-x-4♣-?,did anyone refuse to bid 4♠?