Wackojack Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Assuming SAYC or similar; The bidding goes:S W N E1♣ Pass 1♥ 1♠? What type of hand does South show by bidding?: a passb doublec 1NT Is there a standard or is this a matter of partnership agreement?Would playing a 12-14 NT opening change this? Thanks for your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 For me:Dbl: 3♥. 1NT: balanced, no 3♥, stopper ♠. pass: either penalty or nothing to bid (like NT hand without stop, no 3♥,...). Expects partner to Dbl when this gets passed around. Biddings like 1♣-p-1♥-1♠;p-p-Dbl-p;1NT shows no 3♥ and no stop ♠, still balanced range. Playing 12-14 wouldn't change much for me. I also don't know if there's a standard, but support Dbl's are more and more common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Playing a strong NT, mine meanings are similar to Free's. Note however, that the vulnerability will influence the odds. E.g. if the opps are NV, then it's not very likely I have a penalty double. I would have to be 5-1-1-6 or the like. (Unless I open 1♣ with 55 in the blacks that is). So in all likelihood I have a minimum opener and I'm trying to slow the auction down. Playing a weak NT, I would probably play double as a "strong NT double". Although there are many options on whether to play that as my 1NT rebid and to decide what hand doubles and what hand bids 1NT. E.g., if my strong NT hand doubles, then maybe 1NT is something like KQx x JTxx AQJxx? Or I can decide that a NT rebid shows a strong NT and a double is a support double. I think I would need an agreement there, in particular about whether I play support doubles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Dbl = 3♥ and a suitable hand to play in hearts. Support doubles must be optional, support doubles must be optional.1NT = Depending on agreement this can be your 17-18 hand so you don't have to jump to 2NT leaving pass for the balanced hands and the flat hands where you don't want to make a support dbl. Luis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Dbl - either takeout or exactly 3 hearts, depending upon agreements. Takeout in SAYC1NT - 18-19Pass - minimum, 3-5♣ including all 12-14 balanced with a doubleton heart and some with three hearts - why would you bid again on these hands? Having said that, I'm not sure if this is SAYC or not. Playing 12-14 NT, you need to act again on 15-17 bal, either with a double or 1NT. If 1NT, you have to decide what you will do with no stopper in the opps suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 X=3H1N=weak NT, double stopper in spadespass=pass. Playing weak NT X=strong NT no spade stopper1N=strong NT, spade stopperpass=pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 The doublers above are playing "support double", where double shows three card support, raise shows 4 card support and pass and other bids show less than three card support. Support doubles is a convention, and to the best of my knowledge not a standard part of SAYC. You can add it of course. So I will tell you what these bids mean if you are not playing support doubles.... 1) Pass = most likely a balanced minimum (in SAYC 11-14). 2) Dbl = is for takeout,3) 1NT here depends upon your agreement. I believe in SAYC this would be hand too strong to open 1NT to keep you from getting too high in 2NT with a possible good spade lead against you. The meaning of these bids change of course as suggested by others if you play support doubles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Interesting I've never heard of 1N here showing 18-19, but then again I never claimed to know sayc :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wackojack Posted January 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 X=3H1N=weak NT, double stopper in spadespass=pass. Playing weak NT X=strong NT no spade stopper1N=strong NT, spade stopperpass=pass.This looks good to me with the support double agreement. But playing weak no trump does the pass then suggests an unbalanced hand with a rebid problem? Something like Axx, x, KJxx, KJxxx or even worse Axx, x, AQxx, Qxxxx? Or on the other hand would a bid of 2c now definitely show 6? Quote "1NT here depends upon your agreement. I believe in SAYC this would be hand too strong to open 1NT to keep you from getting too high in 2NT with a possible good spade lead against you." Then what would a rebid of 2NT mean in SAYC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Yes pass would suggest an unbalanced hand in the wk NT scheme that I use. 2C would suggest 6 no matter what your NT range is. Pass wouldn't necessarily show a hand that had a rebid problem, it would likely be a hand with spade length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Even with support doubles, pass should not deny 3 hearts but show a hand that has worsened due to the auction or was pretty lousy to start. Double if playing support doubles should show 3 hearts and a reason to bid other than simply holding 3H. 1N should state a solid weak NT with good spade stoppage and does not deny 3 hearts. Winston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 1N should state a solid weak NT with good spade stoppage and does not deny 3 hearts. or 4... :rolleyes: Last pair game I played I had AQT Txxx QTxx KJ. 1D p 1H 1S ? I bid 1N lol. ahh...MP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 1N should state a solid weak NT with good spade stoppage and does not deny 3 hearts. or 4... :P Last pair game I played I had AQT Txxx QTxx KJ. 1D p 1H 1S ? I bid 1N lol. ahh...MP...I think even at imps that is right. ;) How much better can you describe your hand than with 1N??? Too many get caught up in showing 3-cards support and forget about just bidding the hand - and to be forced to show 3-card support is the height of foolishness IMHO. Winston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 The point Justin was making was that he had FOUR card support.... and still bid 1NT in order to have the lead come up to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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