Assign the Blame II

[pclayton]

Well we lost our match tonight :angry:

 

Here's one of the key hands:

 

[hv=d=w&v=e&w=skqjthaxxdkqckq9x&e=s9xxxhqxdaxcaxxxx]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Our auction:

 

2N - 3♣

3♠ - 4♥

4N - 5♥

6♠

 

 

1. 2N is 20-21

2. 3♣ is regular stayman

3. 4♥ is a slam invite in spades

 

To add insult to injury the clubs were 4-0 and the K♥ is off, so even the 5 level is jeopardy.

 

Comments on this auction please.

[awm]

Well I have to blame the methods more than anything else. The strong 2NT preempted you right out of the auction. It's hard for east to know that west doesn't hold:

 

KQJT

Ax

KQx

KQ9x

 

or for west to know east doesn't hold:

 

9xxx

x

Axx

Axxxx

 

If I have to blame someone I'd go with east, since with such bad spades and Qx in hearts, and fairly flat shape it isn't necessarily best to push for slam.

[mikeh]

Neither player deserves strong criticism. However, in my view, both overbid. East has terrible trumps for slam purposes: he could easily have reached a slam with something like AQxx opposite 9xxx. He had a flattish hand, with no real source of tricks and a combined 30-31 count. Take the ♥Q and put in the ♣ suit (leaving the shape the same) and I would endorse the move.

 

West also pushed: he had more of an excuse because of his good trump texture, but the KQ doubleton is a poor holding. True, he was very unlucky to find Ax opposite, but in general KQ tight is not as good as KQx, yet he counted them as the same holding. And, with the exception of his ♠10, he has no extras at all. Lots of Kings but only 1 Ace, when the expectation is 2 Aces.

 

A 20-21 2N will usually hold 6 controls and this hand is minimum in that regard as well.

 

I would place the blame 70-30, with east being the more at fault. I confess that I am generally conservative in my responses to 2N openings, and that may colour my view.

[Free]

West has a decent card, full of intermediates to back up. East makes a slamtry, so West should accept.

 

However, I don't agree with East's slam try. You have 2 balanced hands, you'll probably need a lot more from partner to make this slam. ♥Qx is also lost values.

 

I'd give East the blame on this one, for wishful thinking :angry:

[Finch]

Funnily enough, I give West the majority of the blame. He's got a horrible hand. If partner has a serious slam try he'll go on over 4S.

 

Perhaps this shows it's partly a style matter: when, as in this auction, East can make a slam try below game, I like to play that it doesn't have to be that huge a slam try. This hand is easily worth a mildly constructive effort.

[000002]

East should bid 4♥,he must show his slam interesting.

his extra is very clear,double doubleton and (5+4=)9-7=2 long suitter card's contribution,sometimes his hand has 14total points.

 

West hasn't on his road.

his hand is in middle range,good card but not maximum.his 4nt is bad,and 6♠ is worst.I advise 5♠ follow 4nt if he is confused by 5♠ directly.

[bearmum]

Well we lost our match tonight  :rolleyes:

 

Here's one of the key hands:

 

Dealer: West Vul: E/W Scoring: IMP

♠ KQJT ♥ Axx ♦ KQ ♣ KQ9x ♠ 9xxx ♥ Qx ♦ Ax ♣ Axxxx

 

Our auction:

 

2N - 3♣

3♠ - 4♥

4N - 5♥

6♠

 

 

1. 2N is 20-21

2. 3♣ is regular stayman

3. 4♥ is a slam invite in spades

 

To add insult to injury the clubs were 4-0 and the K♥ is off, so even the 5 level is jeopardy.

 

Comments on this auction please.

1. W is OK with 2NT opener (20-21 NO 5CM [i presume]?)

2. 3♣ -- asking for majors OK :unsure:

3. 3♠ showing FOUR spades OK :(

 

 

NOW I have a problem with the 4♥ bid ----- because

a. E ONLY has 4 SMALL trumps

b. E has a fairly balanced hand :lol:

c. partnership has at MOST 31 points !!!! insufficient for a slam with 4/4 ♠ and NO apparent secondary fit :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

 

 

SO imho the blame rests 99% ( :angry: ) with W

[Blofeld]

4♥ is pushy but doesn't seem unreasonable ... after all, East does hold 2 aces.

 

I don't think that west is worth anything other than 4♠ over 4♥, though. Too few aces, minimum point count, KQ tight.

 

I suppose it's a case of partnership style. They can't both have bid correctly, but if 4♥ shows a stronger slam try then East is in the wrong and West is clear.

[luis]

Normal.

[mike777]

Well we lost our match tonight :lol:

 

Here's one of the key hands:

 

[hv=d=w&v=e&w=skqjthaxxdkqckq9x&e=s9xxxhqxdaxcaxxxx]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Our auction:

 

2N - 3♣

3♠ - 4♥

4N - 5♥

6♠

 

 

1. 2N is 20-21

2. 3♣ is regular stayman

3. 4♥ is a slam invite in spades

 

To add insult to injury the clubs were 4-0 and the K♥ is off, so even the 5 level is jeopardy.

 

Comments on this auction please.

33% west for not having a 2nt opening bid.

67% east for bidding 3C rather than 3nt and then bidding 4h rather than 4s with poor trumps.

[Guest Jlall]

Not sure what west was thinking here. Even opposite Axxx Kx Axx xxxx which is a very favorable hand slam is not very good. I think the panel is letting him off quite lightly as few hands make slam good that partner can not make another try with (hands with stiff hearts being a key in most of those).

[pclayton]

Well, its a good thing that everyone agrees on this one! :rolleyes: :P :rolleyes:

 

I was West. My main reason for proceeding was that I was holding such great trump, and for my pard to make a slam try with ♠Axxx or xxxx; pard MUST hold a decent hand.

 

I agree with Adam; and this is one of the reasons I HATE 2N openings. I fully expected pard to hold A - A - K for his bidding, and hopefully a little texture.

 

I have a small issue with inviting a slam with a dead minimum, no shortness, 4 crappy trump and 60% of your points stuffed into doubletons.

 

I think in retrospect I should have counter-invited with 5♣. Pard said he would have checked out over that, but I think 5♣ IMPROVES the East hand.

[Winstonm]

It's hard to put much blame anywhere here - reverse the diamond and heart length in opener's hand and you have a heart pitch.

 

A concept that has some value in judging how hard to try for slam is to look at your weakest holdings and visualize the coverage needed for no losers and then build a hand from there.

 

Opener needs: AKQx, AKx in the majors so that leaves only K, Q or Q, QJ in the minors. If responder held a singleton minor, then he could envision a hand such as AKQx, AKx, xxx, KJx opposite xxxx, Qx, A, Axxxxx.

 

With so much coverage needed in the majors it may have been right to simply follow the adage of game before slam and give up - especially as 2N is such a difficult opening with which to deal. The problem lies in continuations: to gear toward slam bidding, 3C followed by 4C should be natural and forcing and show a 4/5 or 4/6 pattern. To be forced into using a nebulous 4H does not allow the precision necessary to find out if the hands fit well and this "other major" slam invite is better used over 1N-2C-2M where you still have some 4-level room.

 

Another point is that when you look at each hand individually, neither looks "slammish", and I would think East was mesmorized by the HCP count while West was caught up with his great trump support and kind of overlooked his overall control poor hand. These things can easily happen if you are not in heat 1 and happen all the time in heat 3.

 

Blame should go 66 east, 34 west.

 

Winston

[HeartA]

Neither player deserves strong criticism. However, in my view, both overbid. East has terrible trumps for slam purposes: he could easily have reached a slam with something like AQxx opposite 9xxx. He had a flattish hand, with no real source of tricks and a combined 30-31 count. Take the ♥Q and put in the ♣ suit (leaving the shape the same) and I would endorse the move.

 

West also pushed: he had more of an excuse because of his good trump texture, but the KQ doubleton is a poor holding. True, he was very unlucky to find Ax opposite, but in general KQ tight is not as good as KQx, yet he counted them as the same holding. And, with the exception of his ♠10, he has no extras at all. Lots of Kings but only 1 Ace, when the expectation is 2 Aces.

 

A 20-21 2N will usually hold 6 controls and this hand is minimum in that regard as well.

 

I would place the blame 70-30, with east being the more at fault. I confess that I am generally conservative in my responses to 2N openings, and that may colour my view.

Agree with analysis, but don't agree with the blame. I would assign 40 (east, responder) and 60 (west, 2N opener).

[tysen2k]

60% East

10% West

30% Strong 2N

[Kalvan14]

East is certainly the worst offender. A slam try with a bare 10 HCP and horrible trumps fit (worse, 6 points are in the doubletons), is creative, to say the least.

West has accepted on the strength of his trumps, but it is not good enough: just one ace, KQ tight in diamonds and minimum HCP should make the refusal easy. If E is stronger (and has a real slam try will come back again - possibly with 5♠ if his problem are trumps).

65% E, 35% W, but it should actually be something like 70% E and 50% W (irrespective of the strength of the slam try, W cannot accept).