Your everyday 75 hand

[Echognome]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sh9dkjt84cakqt984]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♠ - (P) - 2♣ - (3♥)

3♠ - (P) - ?[/hv]

 

I wasn't quite sure whether to give you this round of bidding or the next one.

 

1. What is your call now?

 

2. Would you think a 4♦ bid here is natural or a cue-bid agreeing spades?

 

3. Supposing you bid 4♦ and partner bids 4♠, would you pass or bid 5♣?

 

Luckily this was all online and in tempo, so no one saw me squirm. :huh:

[Finch]

1. 4C

 

2. Natural, but only in my most regular partnerships (who know I have to bid 4H to agree spades). Wouldn't risk it with a pickup partner.

 

3. 5C. Worried about how many hearts they can cash and/or being cut off from the clubs before trumps are drawn.

[black man]

:huh:

In my opinion a 0 1 5 7 hand is always very difficult to bid.

Anyway in this hand I bid 4 d and, on p's 4 spades, I bid 5 clubs

I hope that my p, with 1 of 2 red aces and, eventually, diamond Q could bid 6, or in clubs or in diamonds

cry for my poor english

black man

[whereagles]

2. Because opener might have been pushed into his 3♠ bid, 4♦ here should be natural, 6-5. If LHO had passed, you might have a case for a spade cue, but in this case I don't think so.

 

3. I don't know what I would do because I wouldn't have that problem: over 3♠, I'll just make the practical bid of 6♣ :huh:

 

Would prefer to have a heart void for this, but oh well.

[bearmum]

Dealer: North Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ [space] ♥ 9 ♦ KJT84 ♣ AKQT984

1♠ - (P) - 2♣ - (3♥) 3♠ - (P) - ?

 

I wasn't quite sure whether to give you this round of bidding or the next one. 

 

1. What is your call now?

 

2. Would you think a 4♦ bid here is natural or a cue-bid agreeing spades?

 

3. Supposing you bid 4♦ and partner bids 4♠, would you pass or bid 5♣?

 

Luckily this was all online and in tempo, so no one saw me squirm. <_<

1. 4♦

2. Natural suit :angry:

3. 5♣ showing 6/5 at least with ♣ longer than ♦ --- EXACTLY what I have :) WTP?

[Blofeld]

1. 4♣

2. Think it should probably be natural but I'd be worried about a misunderstanding without discussion.

3. 5♣ and sigh.

[pclayton]

4♦ looks so obvious, but its a cue for spades. Justin mentioned a good rule: new suits are not bid at the 4 level.

 

Whats wrong with a nice forcing 4♣?

[Guest Jlall]

4♦ looks so obvious, but its a cue for spades. Justin mentioned a good rule: new suits are not bid at the 4 level.

you forgot "in unpreempted auctions" at the end :)

[han]

I think that 4D should be natural here (see Justin's comment) but I wouldnt' risk it.

 

I can see myself bidding 6C, but 4C is probably better.

[Guest Jlall]

I would start with 4C. I'm playing in clubs no matter what. If partner has 8 spades and 1 club its not hard to see how clubs could play 2 tricks better. If partner has 3 diamonds and 1 club its not hard to see how clubs could be better.

 

If I had bid 4D I would bid 5C over 4S. 6 is tempting but im 1-0 the wrong way in the majors.

[mikeh]

This hand is about ♣. ♦ will rarely play better: most of the time a 7-1♣ fit will play as well or better than a 5-3♦ fit. Bidding 4♦ (which is natural for me) caters to partner's possible 4 card support, altho how the auction proceeds afterwards is murky at best. I prefer not to shoot at such an unlikely and narrow target, so I bid a forcing 4♣.

 

On one level, after a 4♠ bid over either 4♣ or 4♦, 4N could show a minor two-suiter with a two card discrepancy, but I think that it should be keycard, even tho I probably play 4N as keycard less than just about anybody.

 

So I bid 5♣: 6♣ is way too much with 0=1 in the majors.

[mikestar]

...  I don't know what I would do because I wouldn't have that problem: over 3♠, I'll just make the practical bid of 6♣ :P

 

Whereagles must be getting conservative. I bid 6♣ directly over the opener. There is no way to be scientific so let's put them to the guess right away. I'll make sometimes, I'll go down sometimes, they'll miss some cheap saves and take some phantoms--and even if they guess right it will unnerve them.

[Winstonm]

To me this looks like an instance where describing my hand to partner is of more value than asking him anything - what else can he tell me and what do I expect to hear over 4C? I think although 4C is forcing the better call over 3S is a direct 5C - this to me is the only bid that gets across the message that I have a virtually self-sufficient suit and am not interested in much of anything else. This is also the bid that allows partner to look at control cards and a singleton x in clubs as being slam cards.

 

Winston

[inquiry]

I think 5♣ or 6♣ is the only choice. My gut feeling is 5[cll] willl be almost cold and 6♣ will have a much better than average chance to make on this auction. And remember, 5♣ does not end the auction.

[pclayton]

I think 5♣ or 6♣ is the only choice. My gut feeling is 5[cll] willl be almost cold and 6♣ will have a much better than average chance to make on this auction. And remember, 5♣ does not end the auction.

Chances are we have a heart loser, and maybe a club loser, in addition to whats happening in the diamond suit.

 

It seems more prudent to me to see what pard does over 4♣.

 

If you are paranoid about 4♣ (it should be, but there are some that would say it isn't), then a blast would be in order.

[han]

Indeed, why is 4♣ not an option Ben?

[inquiry]

I think 5♣ or 6♣ is the only choice. My gut feeling is 5[cll] willl be almost cold and 6♣ will have a much better than average chance to make on this auction. And remember, 5♣ does not end the auction.

Chances are we have a heart loser, and maybe a club loser, in addition to whats happening in the diamond suit.

 

It seems more prudent to me to see what pard does over 4♣.

 

If you are paranoid about 4♣ (it should be, but there are some that would say it isn't), then a balst would be in order.

Paranoia is not the problem with 4♣. If you are going to force to 5♣ anyway, that will be fine. But for me, 4♣ should leave the door open for 4♠. I would rather bid 4♦ and then pull 4♠ to 5♣ to imply a tolerance for diamonds but strong preference for clubs than bid 4♣ and then 5♣ (with only mild preference for clubs, you could bid 4♦ then bid 4NT assuming partner would figure this is not RKC for spades on this auction after he rebids spades twice).

 

I am not willing to play in spades even though partner might be willing to bid them again, thus no 4♣ bid. Maybe someone who is clever at it can set up a simulation... 5♣ must be nearly cold, and 6♣ requires little more than diamond Queen and a red ace in partners hand .....

 

Ben

[jdeegan]

:angry: 7-5 hands play dreadfully in the five bagger unless pard has four card support because you get tapped out and trumps figure to be 4-1. I agree with the expert opinion. Pick the number of clubs you think we can make and bid it.

[Fluffy]

4♦ is cue to me, I would bid 5♣, 6 on a inspired day.

[dogsbreath]

hi

Isnt 4C Gerber? :)

 

Rgds Dog

[Fluffy]

hi

Isnt 4C Gerber? :o

 

Rgds Dog

Yeah, right, sadly you never knwo if the ♠A is there or not :)

[han]

I think 5♣ or 6♣ is the only choice. My gut feeling is 5[cll] willl be almost cold and 6♣ will have a much better than average chance to make on this auction. And remember, 5♣ does not end the auction.

Chances are we have a heart loser, and maybe a club loser, in addition to whats happening in the diamond suit.

 

It seems more prudent to me to see what pard does over 4♣.

 

If you are paranoid about 4♣ (it should be, but there are some that would say it isn't), then a balst would be in order.

Paranoia is not the problem with 4♣. If you are going to force to 5♣ anyway, that will be fine. But for me, 4♣ should leave the door open for 4♠. I would rather bid 4♦ and then pull 4♠ to 5♣ to imply a tolerance for diamonds but strong preference for clubs than bid 4♣ and then 5♣ (with only mild preference for clubs, you could bid 4♦ then bid 4NT assuming partner would figure this is not RKC for spades on this auction after he rebids spades twice).

 

I am not willing to play in spades even though partner might be willing to bid them again, thus no 4♣ bid. Maybe someone who is clever at it can set up a simulation... 5♣ must be nearly cold, and 6♣ requires little more than diamond Queen and a red ace in partners hand .....

 

Ben

Ben, let me just check if I got this right... You play that 4C shows at least willingness to play in spades, and 4C followed by 5C is a slam try with very good clubs and spade tolerance?

 

That definitely sounds playable, but it would not have occurred to me. I can't imagine that you have discussed this specific auction, so what is the general rule here? Is it that slow auctions suggest more than one strain?

 

BTW, would you play 4D as a cuebid or as natural?

[inquiry]

I think 5♣ or 6♣ is the only choice. My gut feeling is 5[cll] willl be almost cold and 6♣ will have a much better than average chance to make on this auction. And remember, 5♣ does not end the auction.

Chances are we have a heart loser, and maybe a club loser, in addition to whats happening in the diamond suit.

 

It seems more prudent to me to see what pard does over 4♣.

 

If you are paranoid about 4♣ (it should be, but there are some that would say it isn't), then a balst would be in order.

Paranoia is not the problem with 4♣. If you are going to force to 5♣ anyway, that will be fine. But for me, 4♣ should leave the door open for 4♠. I would rather bid 4♦ and then pull 4♠ to 5♣ to imply a tolerance for diamonds but strong preference for clubs than bid 4♣ and then 5♣ (with only mild preference for clubs, you could bid 4♦ then bid 4NT assuming partner would figure this is not RKC for spades on this auction after he rebids spades twice).

 

I am not willing to play in spades even though partner might be willing to bid them again, thus no 4♣ bid. Maybe someone who is clever at it can set up a simulation... 5♣ must be nearly cold, and 6♣ requires little more than diamond Queen and a red ace in partners hand .....

 

Ben

Ben, let me just check if I got this right... You play that 4C shows at least willingness to play in spades, and 4C followed by 5C is a slam try with very good clubs and spade tolerance?

 

That definitely sounds playable, but it would not have occurred to me. I can't imagine that you have discussed this specific auction, so what is the general rule here? Is it that slow auctions suggest more than one strain?

 

BTW, would you play 4D as a cuebid or as natural?

In a competive auction, 4♦ would be natural.

 

Since we can agree that 4♣ is forcing, then 4♣ followed by 5♣ should tell a story different from an immediate 5♣.

 

Now as to whether 4♣ shows a willingness to play in spades, the answer is no. What I was trying to say, is I would bid it IF playing in spades was an option, but I mgith bid it in other situations as well. That is, it doesn't promise a willingness to play in spades, it is just forcing. But my point was, with a willingness to play in spades if partner rebids them a third time, I would bid 4♣. Here I have no such willingness.

 

Thus, 5♣ is unidirectional.. I have given up on spades even if partner could bid them a third time. I have enough to be sure of game, and not enough to be sure of slam. I realize partner could have a seven card or longer spade suit. I have no interest in diamonds. Exactly the picture I want to paint.. What does 4♣ paint? If partner bids 4♠, are you passing (I bet the answer is no). If partner bids 4♦, do you trust this is not just some sort of waiting bid? Will partner know of your great clubs if his hand is suitable for slam except for no real club support? The answer is no. Tell him about your hand with 5♣ (or maybe 4♦).

[pclayton]

Ben, I think you are reading too much into 4♣ vs 5♣ with regards to spade tolerance.

 

If anything, 5♣ says "I want to play 5♣". 4♣ 'might' have a tolerance for other strains, but also might have en eye on bigger and better things. There are certainly fast arrival implications.

 

My biggest question is 4♦ by pard a cue for clubs, or is it a secondary suit?

[inquiry]

Ben, I think you are reading too much into 4♣ vs 5♣ with regards to spade tolerance.

 

If anything, 5♣ says "I want to play 5♣". 4♣ 'might' have a tolerance for other strains, but also might have en eye on bigger and better things. There are certainly fast arrival implications.

 

My biggest question is 4♦ by pard a cue for clubs, or is it a secondary suit?

The problem with 4♣ then 5♣ is that it doesn't get across the quality of the club suit.

 

what if the bidding goes, for instance, 4♣-4♥-5♣... will partner know a singleton club is enough? I think not. Fast arrival is nice, I use it. but here you want to paint a very clear picture. I think 4♣ muddies the water. I am willing to go 4♦ then 5♣, or 5♣. Period. I never said 4♣ then 5♣ promises a spade tolerance, only that 5♣ immediately closes the door on spades.