What's the double?

[Fluffy]

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=skj2ha62dkqj4ck73]133|100|Scoring: MP

W - N - E - S

ps-4♠-5♥-5♠

6♥-X -ps-??[/hv]

 

5♠ is probably not everyone's choice, but try to live with it :)

[Guest Jlall]

I think it's lightner.

[pclayton]

Its typically Lightner.

 

We are Vul vs Not, so I hope my pard is over 30 :) and has his call.

 

Curious. Now that we know about the void, 6♠ starts to look really appealing. Seems pard has something along the lines of: AQxxxxxx, x, void, ?xxx or AQxxxxxx, x, xxxx, void. With the 1st, we are crushing 6♥ and probably can't make 6♠ and with the 2nd we are barely beating 6♥ and 6♠ looks excellent.

 

Even though pard will have longer clubs than diamonds, from an expected payoff, 6♠ looks really good. Furthermore, they'll probably take the push to 7♥ anyway.

 

Even though the problem didn't ask, I think I'll try 6♠.

[mikeh]

It should be Lightner, but it is not easy to believe that he holds more than 1 trump, so he should be 8140 or 8104 or 9130 or 9103 etc.

 

I am worried about missing a slam here, and experience suggests that bidding 6♠ will never fetch 7♥: when was the last time you got doubled and then raised yourself?

 

But bidding slam is way too much of a position. I have no idea as to his void: my longer ♦ are offset by my stronger ♣: the opps are more likely to be this aggressive if one of them has a long, strong side suit, and it isn't likely to be ♦.

 

Another reason to not bid slam is that it is possible that partner is 82 or 92 in the majors with no minor Ace, and now slam goes down even if his void is in ♣: they are not trying to cash a minor ace on the auction.

 

So I pass and lead the ♣ x. If it is wrong, I probably score a ♦ or 2 later: they do hold 9 of them! If LHO is void Jxx Axxxx A10xxx and RHO xx KQ109xx void QJxxx, a ♦ lead will be awfully bad. Okay, a carefully constructed hand with a debatable auction, but you get the point.

[Kalvan14]

6♠. Pard should have 8 spades for sure, if not 9, and a chicane. I believe that the chances to make this slam are pretty good (and 6♥X might not pay enough)

[tysen2k]

I once read of this treatment and I've always liked it.

If a preempter doubles it says: "Partner I have more shape than I've promised and I really don't want to defend. However, you are the captain and I'll let you decide..."

[mike777]

Hate the treatment to open 4major with extra shape or outside defense. In fact prefer 4s in second seat to be a once a year bid, find something else to open first rather than once a day bbo bid.

[000002]

in this unfavorable vulnerable , the lightner better than send-off.

[pclayton]

Another reason to not bid slam is that it is possible that partner is 82 or 92 in the majors with no minor Ace, and now slam goes down even if his void is in ♣: they are not trying to cash a minor ace on the auction.

Mike - when was the last time you saw your opponents bid a slam with 8 trumps and 17 points between them?

[whereagles]

What's the double...? Well, don't you think that's something you and pard should have discussed? :rolleyes:

 

I would tend to think it's lightner because you have soooooo much hcp it hardly seems possible for pard to have a heavy-weight 4♠ opening :)

[Winstonm]

My understanding of Lightner is that it is a double of a voluntarily bid slam or after showing a weak hand - 4S vul verses NV in second seat is not a weak bid and the opps did not voluntarily bid this slam. Partner must assume I bid 5S to make so must be discouraging further bidding with xx in hearts. In 6 spades we might make opposite the Ax or Axx of diamonds, but would not make opposite Ax or Axx of clubs. Still guessing it seems. My best guess is to take the sure plus and defend with the diamond King lead.

 

Winston