Echognome Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 This is a pure style question. A lot depends on the rest of your system of course. Suppose you are playing a standardish 2/1 with a 14-16NT. Your 1NT rebid thus shows 11-13. Do you consider this to be an opener as dealer? ♠J98♥J5♦AQ6♣QJT96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Personally, I wouldn't open it. However, if I were playing a method wherei) my 1NT rebid shows 11-13 balancedii) partner bids knowing I may have a balanced 11-count then yes. I think the pretty club suit makes up for the jacks, making this not worth downgrading to a 10-count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 No I don't open it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysen2k Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 It's borderline for me, but I like to bid. Note however that if the 1NT opening was 11-13 then it becomes an automatic opener since you can shut out the majors. Tysen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Given that your 1NT rebid shows 11-13, I would certainly open it. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Since when does standard 2/1 open balanced 11 counts? Even with the agreement to open a balanced 11, I'd pass.Those Jacks are gruesome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 no, unless systemically i was supposed to open any hand i evaluated to be an average 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 One of my pet peeves is opening weak minor hands. First it makes it easy for the opponents to enter the bidding with a major suit overcall. Second I have always found it more difficult to out bid the majors when I have minors. Assuming you open 1C you have a poor rebid over to most 1 level responses. Granted you could raise 1S to 2, which no doubt will delight your partner who responed 1S passing his 5 card D suit on Kxxx. In addtion if the enemy overcalled 2H you have to make a support dble should that tool be part of your weapons. This gives you 2 chances to delight partner when you table this trash :P . If you open 1C does your partner always play you to have a real suit? Lets assume you passed, how bad can it be if partner opens or overcalls or even pre-empts? Mark me down as a passer at any form of scoring. Only playing weak NT would I want to open this beauty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 No, I would not open it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I consider this to be an above average 11, so I would open it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I hold a LTC of 8 and only 2 controls and poor majors: pass This is a good advertisement for 10-12 or 11-13 1N opening bids: I would be delighted (nv) to preempt with 1N :P I have no objection to opening some 11 point hands, even balanced ones, but my guides for doing so are 3 controls, LTC of 7 or less, few Queens and fewer Jacks, and decent majors. None of these are, by themselves, go/no go tests, but this hand fails on all of them. The internal texture of the ♣ suit, a countervailing indicator, is insufficent to offset all this negativity. However, I hope that I am playing semi-forcing 1N responses by a passed hand, since I am otherwise (and maybe, anyway) going to be in trouble should partner open 1♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Doesn't meet any of my criteria for opening (even in 3rd seat, but I might open it 1C in 3rd NV vs V) so I would pass even with the 11?-13 1NT rebid available which I might reserve for those 11 hcp hands with 2-4-2-5... :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 not an opening hand to me: 11 (at most average) hcp, bergen's count of (not good) 19 , and 24 Zar points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Not an opener for me. Reverse the minors, and I might open 1C. NOT A TYPO. With Jxx-Jx-QJ10xx-AQx, I might open 1C. The additional features pushing me toward that 1C opening are (1) to suggest a lead -- I do not want a lead AT my QJ10 -- and (2) to frustrate my LHO from an easy call with 4414 pattern. 1C also allows a 1D response, which I should be able to raise in comp or balance with this hand. It still would be an opt out, but closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Matt, playing your model's parameters then: Recently I passed a hand like this first seat vul. during a tourney. I thought opening the hand was very close but partner yelled director and reported a Psyche by me. This is what he said "...not even close....its 11 highs....we open all average or near average 11s.... To pass an 11 count...you need a real dog, like less than a quick trick...bad spot cards, etc.... this hand is actually a tad bit above average with 1.5 quicks and a great suit...offset slightly by the stray jacks." Having partner call the director on you helps one in remembering things. :P. So if this hand is an above average hand you need to open it in your style :D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalvan14 Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I open this hand. Better to get in now than trying to catch up later.IMHO, it's easy for oppos to overcall 1m, but, for some reason, their auction is never as nice as when they open 1M.Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I thought it an interesting style question. I held: ♠KQxx♥A♦Txxxx♣Axx in response I bid 1♦ and 2♠ (natural GF) over the 1NT rebid and we ended in the no play 3NT. If I imagined partner would open the actual hand, I have to invite on this. I hate opening balanced 11 counts vulnerable, and found that my bidding improved when I didn't. I wasn't out to "blame" partner, just wondered what people considered to be standard. I didn't think it a 1♣ opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 K+R (which I don't trust) evaluates this at 9.95 points; Binky (which I do) evaluates it at about 10.4. I think I overvalued the club suit, it needs an ace or a king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I thought it an interesting style question. I held: ♠KQxx♥A♦Txxxx♣Axx in response I bid 1♦ and 2♠ (natural GF) over the 1NT rebid and we ended in the no play 3NT. If I imagined partner would open the actual hand, I have to invite on this. I hate opening balanced 11 counts vulnerable, and found that my bidding improved when I didn't. I wasn't out to "blame" partner, just wondered what people considered to be standard. I didn't think it a 1♣ opener. If you are going to play this then think 14 hcp to force to game by responder in general. Now playing XYZ or 2 way checkback the bidding would go: 1c=1s1nt=2c2s=pp 1s=Walsh style, bid major over longer minor with all invite or less hands, think 13 hcp or less very often.1nt=11-132c=invite checkback, 3 card support takes priority over puppet to 2D2s=3s spades but minimumpass Btw this is a very typical everyday auction playing this style. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 standard is 12 hcp or rule of 20. more then 90% of the people i know use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 standard is 12 hcp or rule of 20. more then 90% of the people i know use it. This is not standard and not played by 99.9% of players, that is the point <_<. Enjoy!This is Barry Crane style.If you hate his style, as many do, great, but he could win with it and he opened this stuff all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 i'd never open that hand, normally... i'd love to open that hand playing mini nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 No, it's a clear pass for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 When I play 14-16 1NT with 11-13 1NT rebid (which I frequently do), I prefer to open only good 11 counts. This isn't one for me, the major jacks are too much downside. I think you were a bit unlucky too in that the hands just don't mesh well. Although responder's hand has some warning signs (bad honor location) I don't think I could bring myself to only an invite opposite 11-13. What do others think? Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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