luke warm Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 [hv=d=w&v=n&s=s9hqj543dajt62ck2]133|100|Scoring: IMPP - 1H - P - 1SP - 2D - P - 5HP - your bid[/hv] interested in knowing what the standard (if it exists) meaning of 5H is... the bidding was at the other table, not ours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 exclusion :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 [hv=d=w&v=n&s=s9hqj543dajt62ck2]133|100|Scoring: IMPP - 1H - P - 1SP - 2D - P - 5HP - your bid[/hv] interested in knowing what the standard (if it exists) meaning of 5H is... the bidding was at the other table, not ours I would guess asking for second round club control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 exclusion :)And here I thought a pro would always recognize a splinter bid. :P Winston P.S. If this isn't about club control then Houston, we have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 I don't have a clue what 5♥ means. I'll add a 6th... Mostly because I'll be playing it.. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothbrush Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 I think partner invites for slam, but I have a minimum with only 1 ace, so I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbi Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 It's a grand slam invite for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Hi, asking for trump quality, I pass. But what ever it shall mean, if I get it wrongand partner complains, I shoot him.He has lots of room to get all the information he needs, why did they invent in the 50's / 60's or 40's of the last century a convention called 4th suit forcing? With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 the slam makes and they bid it ... i would have passed, because i also thought it asked about trumps... it never entered my mind that it asked about clubs, that's interesting.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 [hv=d=w&v=n&s=s9hqj543dajt62ck2]133|100|Scoring: IMPP - 1H - P - 1SP - 2D - P - 5HP - your bid[/hv] interested in knowing what the standard (if it exists) meaning of 5H is... the bidding was at the other table, not oursTo ME it says "P if you have the 2 TOP honours in ♥ bid 7!" SO I PASS and hope like h*** that we make it :) IMHO if partner has SUCH a strong hand there MUST be better ways to bid it than bidding this way !! as ALL I have shown is 5♥ and 4♦ and LESS than 16+ points -- P has a better way (surely) of forcing to game??? FOR EXAMPLE 1. FSF -- which I think is game force even in SAYC! 2. If playing 2/1 either 1NT (forcing) over 1♥ or 2 SOMETHING -- forcing to GAME :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Yes, imo it asks to bid 7 with 2 tophonours. I have only one, so you should bid the small slam... If the slam goes down, I'll blame it on ridiculous bidding from p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 the slam makes and they bid it ... i would have passed, because i also thought it asked about trumps... it never entered my mind that it asked about clubs, that's interesting..This jump to 5 with an unbid suit has historically meant: bid 6 if you have second round control of the unbid suit. To ask about hearts, the auction would have gone something like:1H-1S2D-3C3D-5H Winston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Yes, imo it asks to bid 7 with 2 tophonours. I have only one, so you should bid the small slam... If the slam goes down, I'll blame it on ridiculous bidding from p.Mainstream take here is that 5N is the grand slam force, asking partner to bid seven with two of the top three honors. 5H asks specifically about control of the unbid suit. Winston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 The only unbid suit is C so it asks for a C control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Asks about clubs. Pass denies a control. 6♥ shows a stiff. 5N shows the guarded K, 6♣ shows the Ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 well that is good to know and explains a lot.. thx guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Mainstream take here is that 5N is the grand slam force, asking partner to bid seven with two of the top three honors. 5H asks specifically about control of the unbid suit. Winston Agree with Winston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Mainstream take here is that 5N is the grand slam force, asking partner to bid seven with two of the top three honors. 5H asks specifically about control of the unbid suit. Winston Agree with Winston. Wait a minute, if 5N is a GSF why is the suit hearts? Why not diamonds, the last bid suit by pard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Mainstream take here is that 5N is the grand slam force, asking partner to bid seven with two of the top three honors. 5H asks specifically about control of the unbid suit. Winston Agree with Winston. Wait a minute, if 5N is a GSF why is the suit hearts? Why not diamonds, the last bid suit by pard?Right....like dealing with an attorney...if you don't dot the each i and cross each t... :P Generically speaking, the jump to 5N is GSF for an agreed upon suit - better? Besides, what do you know....you thought it was exclusion. :D Winston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Asks about clubs. Pass denies a control. 6♥ shows a stiff. 5N shows the guarded K, 6♣ shows the Ace. More to the point. I suppose 5♠ and 6♦ ALSO promise the A♣ (or void). 5♠ should be the Ace. 6♦ = last train? Or the Ace? Hmmm...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Besides, what do you know....you thought it was exclusion. :P Winston Heck yeah it's exlcusion. If partner needed a club control he could bid 4SF then set trumps then cuebid (or something along those lines). Thus 5H is exclusion, diamond fit, heart void, etc. He has KQJxx --- AKQxx KQJ. Nice bid pard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 It's a grand slam invite for me. I am curious about why, If P wanted to find out about heart honors as per grand slam invite, then why not first establish a fit in hearts and then rkc or something else instead of making such an ambiguous bid? BTW, Justin's case for EKCB make sense (I hope he didn't make this case with tongue in cheek), especially under the default agreement that strange bids or unexpected 4NT bids when there hasn't been an agreed upon fit, that partner assume the last naturally bid suit as trumps for the purpose of making his/her next bid. Don't know if that makes any sense to anyone else. Not sure that I would make this bid without prior discussion, tho. DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 It's a grand slam invite for me. I am curious about why, If P wanted to find out about heart honors as per grand slam invite, then why not first establish a fit in hearts and then rkc or something else instead of making such an ambiguous bid? BTW, Justin's case for EKCB make sense (I hope he didn't make this case with tongue in cheek), especially under the default agreement that strange bids or unexpected 4NT bids when there hasn't been an agreed upon fit, that partner assume the last naturally bid suit as trumps for the purpose of making his/her next bid. Don't know if that makes any sense to anyone else. Not sure that I would make this bid without prior discussion, tho. DHL I'm with you, this doesn't make much sense, I dunno what I would want to show, but I would never bid this way at the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebound Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Asks about clubs. Pass denies a control. 6♥ shows a stiff. 5N shows the guarded K, 6♣ shows the Ace. Seems to me I read this once a long time ago but had totally forgotten it. When I read it just now, I was thinking about the counter-argument that the information could be gained by going more slowly in the auction, such as starting with FSF. However, I now realize the benefit of this treatment is that it removes as much as possible the opponents' ability the make lead directing doubles and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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