Choice at 5 level

[pclayton]

Matchpoints, weak field. Vul vs Not.

 

1♠ on left, 2♦ by pard, 4♠ on right. You hold:

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=sxhqj98xxd8xxcaxx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

Your call?

 

After I get a few responses, I'll post a follow-up.

[mr1303]

4NT looks tempting (two places to play) but it seems a bit dodgy to me, since we might beat this one on power if partner has a reasonable overcall. I'll just pass and take my chances on defence

[Guest Jlall]

I used to always bid with these hands, indeed my dad does it all the time. Now I'm a passer. I would only bid 3D if RHO had bid 2S, and my rule is not to be pushed up 2 levels. xxx trumps is not good, and it's unclear how much the heart suit is worth. That being said, passing feels seriously wrong for some reason (probably because this is a potential double gamer). At MP I'm willing to risk it, because I think long run both contracts will go set enough times to make this right.

[Free]

4NT, showing 2 places. Partner probably has 6+♦, but I don't want to exclude my ♥... ♣A is gold, ♥QJ is worth nothing in defense.

[mike777]

Pass, partner still has another call coming.

[Guest Jlall]

Pass, partner has another call coming still.

While this is true, I don't think it's reasonable to expect partner to bid very much of the time. Usually, at red white, he's just going to pass.

[pclayton]

OK: Say you pass.

 

I'm not saying its 100%, but it certainly seems foolhardy to venture to the 5 level opposite a simple overcall when LHO still has a wide range.

 

Pard reopens with a double.

 

Do you pull or pass. if so; to what?

[Guest Jlall]

OK: Say you pass.

 

I'm not saying its 100%, but it certainly seems foolhardy to venture to the 5 level opposite a simple overcall when LHO still has a wide range.

 

Pard reopens with a double.

 

Do you pull or pass. if so; to what?

I play this X just shows values and is takeout oriented (though I will often pass). I have enough to think 5 of a red suit will have play, so I will pull to 4N correcting clubs to diamonds. We may have a slam opposite a perfecta but I'm not going to bid it.

[pclayton]

OK: Say you pass.

 

I'm not saying its 100%, but it certainly seems foolhardy to venture to the 5 level opposite a simple overcall when LHO still has a wide range.

 

Pard reopens with a double.

 

Do you pull or pass. if so; to what?

I play this X just shows values and is takeout oriented (though I will often pass). I have enough to think 5 of a red suit will have play, so I will pull to 4N correcting clubs to diamonds. We may have a slam opposite a perfecta but I'm not going to bid it.

J: Why wouldn't 4N show this hand?

[Guest Jlall]

I play this X just shows values and is takeout oriented (though I will often pass). I have enough to think 5 of a red suit will have play, so I will pull to 4N correcting clubs to diamonds. We may have a slam opposite a perfecta but I'm not going to bid it.

J: Why wouldn't 4N show this hand?

I think it shows approximately this hand, that's why I'm making the bid :) I don't think partner will bid slam with xx AKx AKQxxx Qx though. We could pull to 4N if the CA was the CK in our actual hand.

 

edit: ok I decided maybe you meant a 4N reopening by partner to show this hand. When partner has a hand like x KQx AQxxxx AJx he cannot commit to the 5 level by himself. He has a reasonable chance to beat 4S if you sit for the X, and might be cold for game. He must bid since he may be getting stolen from, though -590 is possible. However, if he had to reopen with 4N to show this he would be converting a lot of plusses into minuses. Bidding solo to the 5 level is rarely a good idea without extreme shape. Also a "penalty" X is very unlikely. When they open 1S and their pard jumps to 4S, you're not going to have a trump stack.

[mike777]

OK: Say you pass.

 

I'm not saying its 100%, but it certainly seems foolhardy to venture to the 5 level opposite a simple overcall when LHO still has a wide range.

 

Pard reopens with a double.

 

Do you pull or pass. if so; to what?

5H

 

1) Must bid something, we can disagree on what but will not pass

2) Very close between 2 suit take out 4nt and just bidding 5H.

3) Argument for 5H is my weak but long suit may play better as trumps and putting 1S bidder on lead may give us just the edge we need.

4) Once again following Bergen's rule of not bidding slam when opponents open at the one level.

 

Great problem Phil, looking forward to seeing the whole hand and learning. :).

[mikeh]

I am a well-known, card-carrying chicken, hence I would have passed 4♠ with nary a cluck.

 

But now partner, who is so often unco-operative, has sprung to life, giving me another peck at the hand.

 

I doubt that he has a lot of ♥'s so I am not placing my meagre eggs in that basket, but he does possess significant values. He expects me to pass more often than not (he did not double initially, hence no 3-suiter nor bid 4N this time suggesting either 4=6 reds or 6=4 minors), but I am allowed to bid.

 

So the plan I have hatched is to bid. It cannot hurt to bring the unlikely ♥ suit into the picture, although I will not place my eggs squarely in that basket by bidding the suit. I will bid 4N, and correct the probable 5♣ to 5♦.

 

The interesting wrinkle is what if he bids 5♦ rather than 5♣? I could gaze deeply into my murky crstal ball and infer that he has at least 3♥ and thus bid 5♥ now: a master stroke if right, allowing me to crow triumphantly. However, with 2=2=6=3 or 3=1=6=3, and good ♦, I'd expect 5♦.

 

So I will pass 5♦ if he bids it.

 

I hope that my paltry assets will offset any fowl breaks he may encounter.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, wtp?

 

Do I need to find out, if they kill me

on the 5 level? No

 

Do I need to find out, that the 4S guy

has more than he promised and 6S is making

if I move? No

 

After partner reopens with a dbl, I will pass as

well.

 

Marlowe

[bearmum]

Matchpoints, weak field. Vul vs Not.

 

1♠ on left, 2♦ by pard, 4♠ on right. You hold:

 

Dealer: West Vul: N/S Scoring: MP

♠ x ♥ QJ98xx ♦ 8xx ♣ Axx

 

Your call?

 

After I get a few responses, I'll post a follow-up.

FIRSTLY -- WE are red v white :P

 

 

I would not bid at ALL unless P FORCED me to -- which he/she has NOT done -- so I pass :)

[jillybean]

Hi, just to clarify things..

 

4nt here shows ♥ and ♣? X would obviously be penalty.

 

thanks,

jb

[Robert]

Hi everyone

 

4NT is often played as two places to play. Partner 'first' takes a pick from the lower two suits and 'if' partner corrects to the 'middle' suit, he is now offering a

choice between the two higher suits.

 

Double is 'card showing', I have 'two way' values. We should be able to beat the

contract of our combined values. If you have extreme shape, my values should also help you make your high level contract.

 

Regards,

Robert

[Free]

FIRSTLY -- WE are red v white :(

 

I would not bid at ALL unless P FORCED me to -- which he/she has NOT done -- so I pass :rolleyes:

Don't you think there's a gigantic possibility opps bid weak at this vulnerability and partner bids with strong hands? <_<

[pclayton]

Pard only overcalled 2♦, so he's somewhat limited to what he can have. I should have also mentioned that 2♦ denies 4♥'s.

 

Looking at out hand, pard can't have a huge spade stack. Yet, pard didn't make a unilateral takeout.

 

If we pull, its probably right to pull to 4N and convert 5♣ to 5♦. This MIST show a heart suit, although the length is undetermined.

 

Still, pass is pretty appealing and thats what I did. We have almost a certain spade loser and its negligible that we can hold the rest of the hand to one more loser.

 

But I think its close and I wouldn't argue it too strongly either way. I've given the hand to a lot of good players and I'm getting a lot of mixed results. I think I'll send it to the BW - doesn't it look like a nice "F" problem in MSC?

 

Anyway, the play AND defense is interesting. I'll split the thread.

[mike777]

Pard only overcalled 2♦, so he's somewhat limited to what he can have. I should have also mentioned that 2♦ denies 4♥'s.

 

Looking at out hand, pard can't have a huge spade stack. Yet, pard didn't make a unilateral takeout.

 

If we pull, its probably right to pull to 4N and convert 5♣ to 5♦. This MIST show a heart suit, although the length is undetermined.

 

Still, pass is pretty appealing and thats what I did. We have almost a certain spade loser and its negligible that we can hold the rest of the hand to one more loser.

 

But I think its close and I wouldn't argue it too strongly either way. I've given the hand to a lot of good players and I'm getting a lot of mixed results. I think I'll send it to the BW - doesn't it look like a nice "F" problem in MSC?

 

Anyway, the play AND defense is interesting. I'll split the thread.

I still disagree. I really think more often H will play better as trumps than D. We may get club pitches on D with hearts as trump. It may be much harder to get club pitches on h with D as trump. Also we may need the extra trump length to ruff spades.

 

btw seeing partner's hand I think raises an interesting bidding theory issue. Given the choice of 1nt or 2D overcall what should the deciding factors be? Is if often best to overcall 2D with only Ax or Kx as a stopper?