What are the chances?

[Al_U_Card]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sakqxxhxxdqxxcaxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

p - p - p - 1♠

2♥-2♠-p - p -

3♥- p - p - ???[/hv]

 

 

What kind of a hand does pard have and is it worth it to double and see?

Should opener have bid differently under the circumstances?

[pclayton]

Lots of bidding by a passed hand.... :)

 

Pass then x is real clear at MPs and I think its clear at IMPs too.

[Guest Jlall]

I would have opened 1N (yes I'm one of THOSE people). I would then have made a game try over 2S. Mundane hands like xxx xxx KJTx Kxx make game. I would have used 2N to make my game try.

 

Having opened 1S then not making a game try, I would just sell out to 3H. Presumably I treated my hand like a weak NT, and I don't see much of a reason to compete to the 3 level.

[inquiry]

Partner has three spades (with four, he probably would have bid 3♠ himself).

 

Partner is not on one of his better hands for 2♠ or he might hit three hearts, and certainly isn't looking at four hearts, so they are in at least an eight card and maybe longer fit.

 

At matchpoints I would double. At imps, I pass and hope to set it. At Imps, I have done all I can do.

 

Ben

[Finch]

I can't pass at matchpoints, but it seems obvous to pass 3H at imps. Unless I know LHO is a loony.

[toothbrush]

Pass and double. Partner doesn't need to have much for his 2♠ after a 2♥ overcall, so I don't see possibilities for a game.

3♥ is a very strange bid. This kind of bidding is imo only possible for players that don't play weak two's and if they do play weak two, this opponent is a loser!

I want partner to chose between 3♥ doubled and 3♠.

[Guest Jlall]

Pass and double. Partner doesn't need to have much for his 2♠ after a 2♥ overcall, so I don't see possibilities for a game.

The fact that partner MAY have a poor 5 or 6 count doesn't mean that he does. He also may have full values.

 

Anyways, I guess I'm in the minority in seeing this as a game try, but maybe that's another reason I open 1N with these hands (so I don't feel compelled to overbid later).

[mikeh]

Don't despair, Justin: you have company for your 1N opening bid: that would be my choice as well ... on second thoughts, maybe that is not as encouraging to you as I imagined :)

 

I would also have made a game try, but mine would be 3♣ rather than 2N.

 

As it is, having bid this way, I am not going to change horses in mid-stream, so I have to pass. I cannot see much likelihood of partner understanding double correctly, in that I personally could not have this hand for double: I would have bid differently not once but twice. Since double would therefore describe a different hand than the one I have (Maybe 5=1=4=3 or 5=1=3=4 with a little less strength) I cannot expect partner to pass very often: and the only reason for double (rather than 3♠) is to allow partner to pass. And I will not bid 3♠ here: in these situations, I believe in staying consistent with my earlier view of the hand unless the auction suggests a re-evaluation: the mere fact that an opp made an unusual bid doesn't tell me much, and partner has more or less denied 4 card support by passing 3♥.

[Winstonm]

Although I don't like 5332 patterns as a rule, this one happens to be enough I think for a game try. I would not have opened 1N with spades, but over 2S there is merit in a somewhat offbeat 3H short suit game try - this has the best chance of getting us to game opposite a perfect fitting 7-8 count but risks going off with less and heart wastage. But my views on SSGT are these: first, it is an exclusion bid eliminating a suit; second, it asks for help in the other 3 suits; third, parther should accept with help in 2 of the 3 suits else sign off.

 

Here with the perfect type hand: xxx, xxx, KJ10x, Kxx game would be reached.

 

Winston

[kgr]

I would also have made a game try, but mine would be 3♣ rather than 2N.

3♦ game try for me. I have most loosers in ♦.

I'm really minimal for this game try. Some days I will pass iso game try.

If passed first then I will not act over 3♥. (Could 3♥ bidder have a card ♠?. Why did he not open?)

[Al_U_Card]

Under the circumstances and with no raise by RHO,

I wanted to give pard a chance to penalize the 3H bid

or take us to 3S with a mini. Here is CHO 's hand[hv=d=n&v=n&s=stxxhtxxdjxxxckjt]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Should he pass or pull?

[Guest Jlall]

I would definitely pull with that.

[mike777]

I think a game try over 2s is clear at the very least. What do we think partner is bidding 2s on? Is partner afraid the opp's will find and make 4 hearts if she passes 2H? Is she afraid you will not balance over 2H and you will miss 2s? I think 2s is weakish but never a bad hand.

 

Expect partner to have more than this 10 loser hand with 3 small trumps and 3 small hearts :).

xxx

xxx

KJTx

Kxx

 

btw1..ah while I was posting I see Al has posted hand. This raises a great bidding theory issue, what is partner trying to accomplish by bidding 2s and what is the best route to achieve those goals?

[Free]

I sell out to 3♥, let them have it...

 

And I'd also start with 1NT, evil as it may be :)

[awm]

I've always treated most doubles after my side has found a fit as penalty oriented. It was also my impression that this was very standard, although some people play maximal (game try) doubles in a few very specific circumstances. This is not a maximal double situation because I can't have a game try -- I passed over 2♠ already, so double should be at least a strong suggestion to defend, or shouldn't it?

 

Anyways doubling wouldn't cross my mind here. I expect partner to pass a double with virtually all hands -- the only likely pulls are hands with four spades and very short hearts and very few values, and such a hand almost surely bids 3♠ at either first turn or second.

 

I'm with Justin and Mike on the game try after 2♠, although I prefer a minor suit try since I don't treat 2NT as strictly forcing and wouldn't want to be left there with two small hearts.

[Winstonm]

Under the circumstances and with no raise by RHO,

I wanted to give pard a chance to penalize the 3H bid

or take us to 3S with a mini.  Here is CHO 's hand

Dealer: North Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ Txx ♥ Txx ♦ Jxxx ♣ KJT

 

Should he pass or pull?

I would have passed the first time. I'm sure going to pull this time, wishing I had passed the first time.

 

Winston

[Al_U_Card]

There is a case to be made for the sanity of LHO for not opening something on this beauty, but I figure that's why we can have these kinds of discussions.... :D [hv=d=w&v=n&s=sxxhakt9xxdatxcxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

In first seat, too good for 2♥ but too bad for 1♥?[/hv]

 

Interestingly, 3H can be beaten and 3S looks like a sure down 1 so it looks like a seller's market at Imps.. :)

[mike777]

There is a case to be made for the sanity of LHO for not opening something on this beauty, but I figure that's why we can have these kinds of discussions.... :D [hv=d=w&v=n&s=sxxhakt9xxdatxcxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

In first seat, too good for 2♥ but too bad for 1♥?[/hv]

 

Interestingly, 3H can be beaten and 3S looks like a sure down 1 so it looks like a seller's market at Imps.. :)

Open 2H,

let's see if the opponents can stop in 2s :).

 

My cc did say sound in first/second seat I assume.

 

Partner may be able to x them in 3s or balance with 3h, interesting situation.

[mikeh]

I cannot imagine passing that hand in 1st seat: it is a clear 1♥ bid, unless playing with Dr. Roth (see recent thread)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

pass and dbl, to suggest defending,

kind of optional dbl.

Given partners hand, he should def.

pull, he does not have a full 2S raise,

and at most one def. trick.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Winstonm]

The hand is a clear cut opener, 1 or 2 depending on style; however, after this sequence, isn't it easier to get to the right spot?

 

P-P-P-1S

2H-P-P-X

P-2S-???

 

Now whatever happens, you are not tempted to go on.

 

Winston