pclayton Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 MP's playing basic 2/1 with a pickup partner. Pard opens 1♥ as dealer at all Vul and RHO passes: ♠JT8x ♥x ♦AQ7xxx ♣xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 MP's playing basic 2/1 with a pickup partner. Pard opens 1♥ as dealer at all Vul and RHO passes: ♠JT8x ♥x ♦AQ7xxx ♣xx 1s wtp? Would make the same bid even if you add the K of D or take away the A of D :rolleyes:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 The problem is coping with a 2♣ rebid...I'm going to go with 1NT given that we are playing 5 card majors, would go with 1♠ if we were playing 4cM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Well, there is an obvious problem if you bid 1♠ and partner rebids 2♣. However, it would also be pretty embarrassing to bid 3♦ or 1NT and have partner turn up with four spades. I suppose this is a win for playing flannery? I'll go with the "textbook" 1♠ call though. This works out better if partner tends to rebid some off-shape 1NTs (allowing us to reach 2♦ on a 6-2 or 6-3 fit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I bid 1♠. Methods count here: I can see an argument for 1N, intending to bid 2♦ over 2♣, should that be the rebid. It avoids the nightmare of a 2♣ rebid after my 1♠. However, I play a method that eliminates that for me anyway: for me, 1N followed by 2♦ is a puppet to 2♥ to allow me to distinguish between a variety of hands. In any event, bidding 1N and arriving at 2♦ is no panacea, and partner may be 4=5 or 4=6 in the majors. It also helps if you can get to 2♦ after a 1N rebid over your 1♠. If you can do that (I can: 2♣ by me is a puppet to 2♦), then this is an additional reason to bid 1♠. What do I do over 2♣? I pas, rightly or wrongly. We may be in a 4-2 fit, and the opps are favourites to lead trump, but my partner's have gone down before :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 1S. There are some hands I'll bid 1N planning to bid 3m next when I have 4 spades, but this is not one of them. This hand has a lot of potential for spade contracts and is not clearly better in 3D than 2H if partner rebids 2H (so there is only 1 "problem" rebid by pard). With xxxx --- KQJxxxx xx I would bid 1N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I play the F-bomb so this is no prob for me. 1NT forcing all the way. Kaplan inversionites might have some fun or not.......a WJS in D, if available, might work but then Bergen is far more likely than that 3D usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Yup, this is an easy hand for Kaplan inversion. Just bid 1♠ (showing a forcing notrump with 0-4 spades) and if partner doesn't show spades you can sign off in diamonds. In general KI is a more elegant (in my opinion anyway) solution to most of the problems flannery can help with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 The big problem with the inversion is the hand on which a standard pair would bid 1♥ 1♠ 1N P The inversion pair bid 1♥ 1N ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 KI has its own problems...Chip Martel feels that giving the chance to double 1♠ is a big loser, and you can't rebid 1NT when partner has shown ♠. BTW, do any KIers choose between 1♠ and 1N with 4♠, depending upon whether they fancy a Moysian part-score or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 1NT forcing planning to signoff in ♦, or 1♠ when playing Kaplan inversion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 The problem is coping with a 2♣ rebid...I'm going to go with 1NT given that we are playing 5 card majors, would go with 1♠ if we were playing 4cM. I rebid 3d...non forcing. wtp? I would rebid 2nt if I want to invite in nt, yes? I can live with passing 2clubs though. :rolleyes:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 The big problem with the inversion is the hand on which a standard pair would bid 1♥ 1♠ 1N P The inversion pair bid 1♥ 1N ??? The advantage is that 1NT shows five spades, making a raise with any three card support virtually automatic. Even a 2-5-3-3 can conceivably bid 2♠, with the guarantee of a 5-2 trump fit (often after 1♥-1♠-1NT people rebid spades on five anyway). Unless you play lots of off-shape 1NT rebids (which most people seem not to) you're not missing the 1NT contract after 1♥-1NT. Note that this also nicely solves one of the "bridge world death hands" where opener has three-card support and extras, since opener can jump raise to 3♠ opposite five-card support and need have no qualms about making a normal rebid over 1♥-1♠ (secure in the knowledge that no 8-card spade fit can exist). Of course, there is some debate as to which bids show which suits after 1♥-1♠ playing Kaplan inversion. The most popular treatments seem to be transfers (so 1NT=♣ or bal, 2♣=♦, 2♦=6+♥, 2♥=5♥+4♠) and natural with 1NT showing spades (so 1NT=4♠, 2♣=3+, 2♦=3+, 2♥=6+♥). Which of these you choose may have some impact, particularly on how often you end up playing 1NT contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Discussing bidding theory, here is another viewpoint. 1h=1s2c 2c promises at least: x....AQTxxx...AJx...AJx orx...AKJxxx...xx...AQTx rebid 2h with: x...AKJxx...xx...AT9xx rebid 1nt with: x...AQTxx...KJ...Kxxxx orx....KTxxx...AJ....AJxxx Please keep in mind that the opp's seem to be silent on less than 40% of the hands, so unopposed auctions become less frequent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 The hand is a good example why one should think before making any bid. A 1NT bid (forcing or not) is a much more flexible bid than the "automatic" 1♠, which leaves responder endplayed after the 2♣ rebid. Besides, the chances pard has a weakish hand with 4 spades are too low to compensate the risk of hearing 2♣ if 1♠ is chosen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 it's hard to imagine bypassing 1s for me, tho i do see that a 2c rebid could cause huge problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysen2k Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 1♠ and pass over 2♣ response. Not pretty, but it's what I'd do. Tysen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhoc3 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I vote for forcing NT. 1) too weak to bid both suits, D suit is much more valuable than S. If there's a game, probably need fitting in both S/D2) If opps inter, I can still bid 3D without exaggerating. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 1♠ is possible but this isn't the type of hand where you desire a 4-3 fit. I'd much rather play the 6-1 or 6-2 in the minor, even at MP's. Looking for a 4-4 spade fit is really a small target too. Even if we have the agreement that 3♦ over 2♣ is non-forcing (which is certainly negligible with a pickup pard), why should we force the auction to the 3 level? 1N gives us the chance to stop in 2♦; 1♠ doesn't. And with some decent 3=5=1=4's and 4=5=0=4, pard can still back into spades. I bid 1N at the table. The auction spiralled out of control for unrelated reasons, since pard bid his head off with an 8 card heart suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I would do whatever to sing off in ♦, 1NT or 3♦ depends on agreements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Looking for a 4-4 spade fit is really a small target too. Looking for a 4-4 spade fit orlooking for a 6(7?)-1 heart fit orlooking for a 1N rebid over which we can get to diamonds orlooking for a 2N rebid over which we can get to 3N from the rightside orlooking for an unlikely diamond rebid over which we can raise and partner is more informed than had we bid 1N immediately then raised or... Many things can happen besides a 2C rebid or finding a 4-4 fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Looking for a 4-4 spade fit is really a small target too. Looking for a 4-4 spade fit orlooking for a 6(7?)-1 heart fit orlooking for a 1N rebid over which we can get to diamonds orlooking for a 2N rebid over which we can get to 3N from the rightside orlooking for an unlikely diamond rebid over which we can raise and partner is more informed than had we bid 1N immediately then raised or... Many things can happen besides a 2C rebid or finding a 4-4 fit.1. How does 1N preclude getting to our 6-1 heart fit? If anything there are hand types with 3♠ and 6♥'s that raise to 2♠ over 1♠, but have an auto 2♥ rebid over 1N. 2. If the auction starts 1♥ - 1♠ - 1N - 2♦, we are in the identical spot of 1♥ - 1N - 2♣ - 2♦. 3. I concede NT rates to play better from pard's side if 3N is the resting place. 4. I think we are much better placed if pard fits side diamonds if we start with 1N. I don't want pard to devalue his spade shortness, and he might veer toward 3N with a lot of hands that are excellent in 6♦: x, AKxxx, Kxxx, Axx. GADGET ALERT: Harvey and I play a natural 2N response to a major (13+). Accordingly, the auction 1M - 1N - 2x - 3N cannot exist. Instead, we use this sequence as a splinter raise of opener's 2nd suit with shortness in Opener's major. Opener can pass, or can advance with a weak major. The subject hand is a good example (perhaps a tad light) of a hand that would bid 1♥ - 1N - 2♦ - 3N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Looking for a 4-4 spade fit is really a small target... Looking for a 2S rebid by partner after my 1N is an even smaller target. I thought a strong object of bidding was to find 4/4 major fits - if I don't bid spades, who will? Winston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 1. How does 1N preclude getting to our 6-1 heart fit? If anything there are hand types with 3♠ and 6♥'s that raise to 2♠ over 1♠, but have an auto 2♥ rebid over 1N. So you are passing a 2H rebid by pard? Then I would say, by your logic, catering to 1H p 1x p 2C specifically is catering to a very small target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I thought this was quite interesting, so I did a sim. The first one came out with surprisingly few 2♣ rebids, at the expense of a lot of 8 card heart suits. I realised that the dealer was giving the hand 5 hearts and *then* dealing the rest of the cards randomly, so I went to Richard Pavlicek's site instead! Partner will have 4-5 clubs on a little over 36% of deals, and 4 spades on a little under 17%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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