6-5 Clubs-Hearts after partner opens 1NT

[kgr]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=shakxxxdqxcqtxxxx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

You partner sits N opens 1NT and opps always pass.

What do you think about this hand and what is your bidding plan.

1. You have following agreements with your partner.

- 2♠ is transfer to ♣'s. Partner will bid 2NT with extra's and good ♣ (at least 3 card with A,K or Q) and he will bid 3♣ without extra's.

- 2♠ transfer followed by 3♥ is GF hand with 5+♣ and 4♥.

- 2♠ transfer followed by 4♣ is slem interesse and asks for contols bids.

- 2♣ stayman followed by 3♣ is minor suit stayman. Partner will show 4/5 card minor. Remark: You will not be able to distinguish between 4=2=5=3 or 4=3=5=2.

- 1NT-2♠-2NT-3♥-3NT-4♣: shows 6-4 ♣-♥ and asks for control bids.

- You don't play splinters here, but you play exclusion Blackwood (jump to 5♠).

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2. With the above agreements what would be:

1NT-2♠

3♣-3♥

3NT-4♥

It shows 6-5 ♣-♥ , but is it absolutly forcing OR passable? If passable then probably only passable with misfit and minimum (eg with KQJx=Jx=AQxx=Qxx)?

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3. You have better agreements?

 

Thanks,

Koen

[Finch]

1. I would bid my shape out i.e. start with 2S then bid 3H.

2. It's passable, but obviously shows serious slam interest as you are forcing to 4NT (or 5C) with no heart fit.

3. I prefer opener to show a club fit over the transfer if he has one, independent of the existence of 'extras'. It's the fit that's important, not random HCP in the other suits.

[awm]

I would actually start with 2♦ (transfer to hearts) and subsequently show my five-card club suit (this is via a direct 3♣ with most partners, via 2NT followed by 3♦ playing Keri-Garrod notrump structure with a few partners). This gets both suits in at a much lower level, and allows partner to cue for clubs (at the three level) or set hearts (at the three level), as well as to distinguish four card heart support (via a super-accept) without eliminating space for cuebids.

 

Admittedly partner will not realize that I am 5-6 (and assume only 5-5) but I would certainly rather show five hearts and five clubs than show four hearts and five clubs, and patterning out after the club transfer takes the auction quite high.

[kgr]

1. I would bid my shape out i.e. start with 2S then bid 3H.

And after 1NT-2♠-3♣-3♥-3NT:

bidding 4♥ to show 6-5 OR bid 4♣ to verify if partner can bid ♦ control?

 

3. I prefer opener to show a club fit over the transfer if he has one, independent of the existence of 'extras'. It's the fit that's important, not random HCP in the other suits.

Refusing the transfer shows a fit and some values in ♣'s. Normally this should allows partner to evaluate if clubs will run and if he can bid 3NT with minimum

[Guest Jlall]

I would transfer to clubs then bid hearts twice. Presumably this would show 5-6. I might miss a slam.

[toothbrush]

I believe I'll transfer ♥, with the intention to repeat ♣ twice because I'm not at all interested in 3NT:

1NT-2♦

2♥-3♣

3NT-4♣

Partner should know that I have only 5 hearts and no more because with 6+♥ I would've jumped to some control-bid after the trf. 4♣ after 3NT shows imo an extreme hand with slamambition in ♣.

[mikeh]

I would transfer to clubs then bid hearts twice. Presumably this would show 5-6. I might miss a slam.

Agreed.

 

Partner should certainly be thinking of slam if he has good holdings in my suits and Aces on the side. It is hard to come up with a hand on which a good, as opposed to a reasonable, slam would be missed. Partner should bid as if I were 1=5=1=6 in terms of valuing cover cards for slam purposes.

 

If I had no slam interest, then I would treat my hand as 5=5 and transfer to ♥ before showing ♣.

 

I would not take control of this hand, even if partner shows a liking for ♣: this is a hand for describing, not asking.

[Free]

I'd also start with 2♦, rebid 3♣ (forcing obviously) and then bid 4♠. This should show slam interest and long ♣ imo.

 

1NT - 2♦

2♥ - 3♣

3NT - 4♠!

 

What else would 4♠ mean??

 

When partner has a ♥ or ♣ fit you can start cuebidding...

[Al_U_Card]

Well you have a great 5 loser hand for C or H and a known 8 card fit. Slam in clubs is a very good shot if H is not unless pard has all the wrong cards. The only problem is the opps may get in there with S so that is another reason for starting with the 2S xfr. They might double it to get their fit started but at least pard would know about your 6 card minor and when you manage to get in the H suit he will go from there.

[toothbrush]

I'd also start with 2♦, rebid 3♣ (forcing obviously) and then bid 4♠. This should show slam interest and long ♣ imo.

 

1NT - 2♦

2♥ - 3♣

3NT - 4♠!

 

What else would 4♠ mean??

 

When partner has a ♥ or ♣ fit you can start cuebidding...

I don't see what 4♠ could mean else, so i must agree

[bearmum]

Dealer: North Vul: N/S Scoring: MP

♠ [space] ♥ AKxxx ♦ Qx ♣ QTxxxx

You partner sits N opens 1NT and opps always pass.

What do you think about this hand and what is your bidding plan.

3. You have better agreements?

 

Thanks,

Koen

My P and I have different agreements :)

Over 1NT

2♠ -- relay to 2NT

3♥ shows ♥ &♣ - 5/5 at least with slam aspirations if fit can b found

 

If P bids 4♣ or 4♥ I will Q 4♠

If he bids 3NT I will bid 4♣ (hopefully telling him I HATE NT and have 6/5 )

[Fluffy]

Transfer to ♥, then bid ♣s

[joker_gib]

Transfer to ♥, then bid ♣s

Transfer to ♣, then bid ♥s :P

[mikeh]

I'd also start with 2♦, rebid 3♣ (forcing obviously) and then bid 4♠.  This should show slam interest and long ♣ imo.

 

1NT - 2♦

2♥ - 3♣

3NT - 4♠!

 

What else would 4♠ mean??

 

Years of experience have taught me that partners can always come up with other answers to these impromptu sequences. Why would you inflict this uncertainty on your partnership when surely anyone above the level of novice would understand that transferring into ♣ and then bidding ♥ twice shows a good 5=6?

[kgr]

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=saqxxhxxdaxxxcajx&s=shakxxxdqxcqtxxxx]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv]

These were both hands.

My partner was sitting South and the bidding was:

1NT-2♦

2♥-3♣

3NT-(4♦)-6♣

I don't remember exactly what opps did bid (I think 4♦, but 4♠ would seem more logical and I don't know why opp did not bid sooner).

♥'s were 3-3 and ♣'s 2-2 with the K before the A, and my partner did make 6♣+1:

♦ lead to A, ♠A, ♥AK and ♥ ruff with small ♣, ♦ ruff, finesse ♣ and ♣A

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Bidding should have gone?:

1NT-2♠

2NT-3♥

3NT-(4♦)-4♥

...?

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Do you agree with the play? Or would you ruff 3th ♥ with ♣J?

[mghmaine]

Transfer to ♥s, then bid ♣s. Unless partner shows a bit and interest, I am subsiding as it's matchpoints and losing methods to stretch for slams.

[toothbrush]

I'd also start with 2♦, rebid 3♣ (forcing obviously) and then bid 4♠.  This should show slam interest and long ♣ imo.

 

1NT - 2♦

2♥ - 3♣

3NT - 4♠!

 

What else would 4♠ mean??

 

Years of experience have taught me that partners can always come up with other answers to these impromptu sequences. Why would you inflict this uncertainty on your partnership when surely anyone above the level of novice would understand that transferring into ♣ and then bidding ♥ twice shows a good 5=6?

By transferring to ♥ first, we will find the fit in ♥ at 3♥ and that makes it easy to find out slam. When opener doesn't support ♥ and I bid over 3NT, it's obvious that I don't want to play NT, neither ♥, so it must be a slam-invite in ♣.

When you first transfer to ♣, you'll find the fit in ♥ only at the 4th level!! Imo partner will be unable to estimate his values so I think it's important to stay as low as possible.

[Finch]

I'd also start with 2♦, rebid 3♣ (forcing obviously) and then bid 4♠. This should show slam interest and long ♣ imo.

 

1NT - 2♦

2♥ - 3♣

3NT - 4♠!

 

What else would 4♠ mean??

If I followed this auction, my partner would expect 5 hearts, 4 clubs and 3 spades together with a seriously good hand. Something like AKx KQxxx x KJxx. After all, opener could have QJ10x Ax Axxx AQx. Then he'll know he's got an amazing hand, and we'll get our top for making 7S. Or if he's got Qxx Jx KQJxx AQx we'll stop happily in 4NT.

 

I'm a strong believer in simply bidding out my shape wherever possible. Partner won't think that bidding hearts followed by clubs then spades suddenly shows longer clubs than hearts.

 

In exactly the same way I would open 1C on the example hand, not 1H, in order to show longer clubs than hearts.

 

By the way, now we know what partner's hand is, it reinforces my point about partner showing a club fit or not over the transfer, not HCP. My partners would show a club fit over 2S (in my methods by bidding 3C showing a fit, but in the methods here with 2NT). I'm not bothered about playing in 6C instead of a 5-3 heart fit, even at matchpoints, and I'll still find a 9-card heart fit.

[Fluffy]

Years of experience have taught me that partners can always come up with other answers to these impromptu sequences. Why would you inflict this uncertainty on your partnership when surely anyone above the level of novice would understand that transferring into ♣ and then bidding ♥ twice shows a good 5=6?

Well....

 

I would not. Does it leave me as novice or even worse? ;)

[Rebound]

If I may interject, I totally fail to see the purpose of transferring to clubs then bidding hearts. I have always thought that on a hand where you have slam interest, it is best to keep the bidding low unless the alternative gives a lot of extra information to partner.

[Guest Jlall]

If I may interject, I totally fail to see the purpose of transferring to clubs then bidding hearts. I have always thought that on a hand where you have slam interest, it is best to keep the bidding low unless the alternative gives a lot of extra information to partner.

The purpose is to describe your hand. Keeping the bidding low is nice, but describing your hand is even better.

[Finch]

If I may interject, I totally fail to see the purpose of transferring to clubs then bidding hearts. I have always thought that on a hand where you have slam interest, it is best to keep the bidding low unless the alternative gives a lot of extra information to partner.

The purpose is not to lie about your suit lengths. Opposite 3-3 in the rounded suits you'd rather play slam in clubs than in hearts. Suppose partner has

 

AKxx

Qxx

Kxx

Kxx

 

Then neither slam is a real joy, but 6C is much better. 6H needs trumps 3-2 and no club ruff and you to find the CJ, while 6C also needs you to find the CJ together with not four hearts and the ace of clubs and (trumps 2-2 or hearts 3-2).

 

The idea is that if you have an 8-card heart fit and a 9-card club fit, you have a chance of avoiding a 4-th round heart loser by playing in clubs, but whatever suit you play in you won't be avoiding your possible club losers.

 

(you may gather I feel quite strongly that telling partner your shape and allowing him to evaluate whether he has good cards or bad cards is the correct approach, rather than lying about your hand and then guessing the final contract)

[awm]

The purpose is not to lie about your suit lengths.  Opposite 3-3 in the rounded suits you'd rather play slam in clubs than in hearts. Suppose partner has

 

AKxx

Qxx

Kxx

Kxx

 

Then neither slam is a real joy, but 6C is much better. 6H needs trumps 3-2 and no club ruff and you to find the CJ, while 6C also needs you to find the CJ together with not four hearts and the ace of clubs and (trumps 2-2 or hearts 3-2).

 

The idea is that if you have an 8-card heart fit and a 9-card club fit, you have a chance of avoiding a 4-th round heart loser by playing in clubs, but whatever suit you play in you won't be avoiding your possible club losers.

 

(you may gather I feel quite strongly that telling partner your shape and allowing him to evaluate whether he has good cards or bad cards is the correct approach, rather than lying about your hand and then guessing the final contract)

In fact neither slam is particularly playable, since you are off the ♦A and the ♣A. Of course, perhaps the opponents make the wrong lead and allow you to throw diamonds on the spades, but this is a rather poor bet to base a slam bid on (not to mention the need to play clubs for one loser, which is likely but not guaranteed).

 

On the hand you gave, even 4♥ and 5♣ are not totally safe (although I'd rather be there than not of course).

 

By "bidding out your relative suit lengths" you are forcing partner to make a decision at the level of 4♥ more often than not. Partner has no idea that he really has to pass 4♥ with:

 

AKxx

Qxx

Kxx

Kxx

 

But that there is pretty good play for slam if he holds:

 

Kxx

Qxx

AKxx

Kxx

 

And slam is excellent if he holds:

 

Jxxx

Qxx

AKx

AJx

 

But we really need to stop in 4♥ if he holds:

 

AKxx

Qxxx

Jxx

AJ

 

Anyways, my point is that the relative pointed suit lengths (void in spades, two diamonds) are more likely to impact the slam decision than the presence of the sixth club. By showing a hand with five-five in the round suits, I can keep the auction a level lower to allow both sides to cuebid controls and still stop in 4♥ when it is right.