dshooter Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 The most commonly used cheating method on bbo is to run out the clock when a bad result is imminent, thus turning a bottom into and average minus. If software was modified to record the time taken by each pair, then it could , if time ran out, give the offending pair a zero and the nonaffending pair an A+. This would stop stalling very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpenz Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 most TD will take care of thus, what would be nice if there was a way for TD's to also asign procedural penalties on top of the bad score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 kinda like a chess clock? not that bad of an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Not sure about this. - It is normal to think at trick 1 before playing from dummy. This would encourage people to play from dummy immediately so they could think with their opps' time. - It isn't automatically the fault of the pair that uses more time - on some hands the defending side has little to think about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 well, you could always compare how much time a side took to how much time the other people playing the same cards did. that way if it is way out of line, you'll know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Near impossible detecting deliberate hold up play online, too many things that can affect play.I gave up trying to track slow players and now adjust boards (with an ‘obvious line’) and always add time to the last round. If players are having trouble with slow play and tell the td promptly it is a lot easier to deal with. If the board is then unfinished with no obvious line, the td can adjust accordingly. A-/A+ I doubt the bridge laws condone this but it seems to me to be the fairest solution. jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 well, you could always compare how much time a side took to how much time the other people playing the same cards did. that way if it is way out of line, you'll know We discussed that topic several times. One of the main problems is: Who's time is running, if you asked opp to explain his a bid?If it is the time of the one who asked, i can let his time run out by answering slowly.If it is the time of the one who should answer, i can buy time to think by clicking on every bid my opps made, so their time runs out.If both times are (not) running, it is not usefull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulg Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 most TD will take care of thus, what would be nice if there was a way for TD's to also asign procedural penalties on top of the bad score.I think this is solution that I prefer. As jillybean says, it is also difficult to track offenders except in the smaller tourneys. I do not want to prevent people thinking. One of my current bugbears is the persistent "faster pls" requests whenever someone takes more than a few seconds to play a card - fast connections, not fast players is the best combination for a decent game. Strong and fair adjustments are the best we can do. PP ability would be nice for clear offences. p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 The only reasonable way of dealing with this would be a timestamped movie per game. Then you can see how long it takes for each player to play a card or make a bid, and a TD can easily determine who wasted time. When a new board is started, timestamp is reset to 0:00. Then you can even make statistics on how long any player has thought, how much time went to explaining bids,... Some issues for the timestamping:- when a player needs to explain one of his bids, is he typing or just waiting to give an explanation?- if a player is explaining his bid while making it- explanations of bids should also be shown in the movie (from all 4 players) imo- when a player has a red dot It would be easy, and could be something like this (or which fits the movie structure better):0:00 start0:02 W pass0:05 N 1NT!0:06 E 1NT?0:08 N 1NT="14-16 bal"0:10 E pass0:20 S pass0:21 W pass0:24 S "glp"0:27 E ping9990:57 E !ping9991:03 E !s101:04 N-EW "leads?"1:08 E-N "3/5 std"1:15 S* !sJ1:15 W-N "std"1:17 W !s5... 1NT! means alerted1NT? asked for explanation1NT= and then text between "" means giving explanationno bid but immediate text between "" is global chatS* means he's dummyN-EW is private chat to both oppsE-N is private chat from E to N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpenz Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 I think what the original poster was talking about was people not playing to last several tricks of a hand to run out of the clock and hope to get an avg - which would be better than a zero. When I direct I have to go back look at the hand, play it back to that point and adjust score, but I would still like to be able to add a Procedural Penalty to the offending side. You could give an extra trick or something but then that wouldnt be fair to the other players in both directions, the only way to penalize is with a procedural penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Not sure about this. - It is normal to think at trick 1 before playing from dummy. This would encourage people to play from dummy immediately so they could think with their opps' time. - It isn't automatically the fault of the pair that uses more time - on some hands the defending side has little to think about Yes but there are obvious cheating behaviours like: - repeatedly refusing or ignoring obvious claims; once i tried claiming 22 times, but the clock expired, so rather than having a top I had the board adjusted to ave+ - deliberately playing slowly (slowly = about 30-45 seconds) at EVERY SINGLE trick. This also occurred to me. We are not talking of a "one-trick" big thinking, which is part of the nature of the game. We talk about deliberate slow play, repeated, in order to let the clock expire. Most often these situations are obvious but the TD cannot follow them all. An automatic time-tracking facility would greatly simplify the TDs task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_c Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 - repeatedly refusing or ignoring obvious claims; once i tried claiming 22 times,Why? What on earth were you thinking - he's rejected my claim the first seven times but maybe it's worth trying again? You've got to change tack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 - repeatedly refusing or ignoring obvious claims; once i tried claiming 22 times,Why? What on earth were you thinking - he's rejected my claim the first seven times but maybe it's worth trying again? You've got to change tack. The contract was laydown.I tried playing the cards too, but opps were taking 20 secs each and every card, just to follow suit (I had all the tricks left on top).The minutes left were less than 2. They were not refusing a claim (which is ok if there is any ecision for ddeclarer to make), they were not even responding to my questions. I also called the TD but he was a playing TD.No punishment for them. And now, please spare me the lesson "That's why it's better not to play in tourneys with playing TD", this is not the point of the thread, such persons shd be punished even under these conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpenz Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 yes when claims are obviouls its crazy but still people will say he didnt state his line of play ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calabres Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 I agree with Jillybean, when we are directing, we must always warn players to call TD to table when a sllow play is obvious. We have the chance to increase time for the round, because as we must well know, the slow play can happens cause of bad connections. We all know too very well the problems we have during Vugraph transmissions. So the best way is add time and make adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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