Walddk Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 [hv=d=e&v=n&s=saq65hak53dkq4ca3]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] RHO annoyingly opens 1♦ and you double. Pass by LHO and 1♥ response from partner. East passes, and now it's you. What is the best way to show this powerhouse? Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 I'm sorry to be so simple-minded, but pd could have a yarborough and won't have 10/good 9 points, and I am 4432 with 22 points. I bid 4H here, as I would at the table :P If pd has the right hand for slam, he will know what to do. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 2NT wtp? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temp3600 Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 3♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 2♦ cue automatic ! Partner will now respond his HCP's by step (2NT still natural with a stopper) 2♥ : 0-32♠ : 4-53♣ : 6-7 Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 I'm sorry to be so simple-minded, but pd could have a yarborough and won't have 10/good 9 points, and I am 4432 with 22 points. I bid 4H here, as I would at the table :P If pd has the right hand for slam, he will know what to do. Peter You're right: Partner will KNOW exactly what to do after 4♥. He's going to pass almost regardless of hand type because there isn't enough bidding space to make any kind of intelligent decision. How is partner supposed to devine that ♠ 93♥ Q832♦ 9873♣ QJ3 Is golden But ♠ 763♥ J873♦ A72♣ K74 doesn't offer good play for 6 Mark me down for 2♦ Please note: I don't consider step responses showing HCP remotely standard (or particularly useful) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 3♥ With a little bit of help, say 5 hearts to the Q, or 4 hearts to the Q, with hearts 3-2, and some fillers in Spades (J 10) 4 ♥ can make. There will be no way for pard to know the J 10 of Spades are important, but the trump Q and J and length will be obvious. I don't think 4♥ opposite a Yarborough with 4 hearts will make.You have a club loser, a dimaond loser, and will need 3 leads from pards hand to pick up the KQ of diamonds for no loss plus take the Spade finesse. RHO probably has at least 12 HCP. There are at most 6 HCP outstanding.Pard may very well have only 4 Hearts and 3 HCP( maybe the Queen of Clubs, ouch). Pard is showing around 0-7 HCP and 4+ hearts. Its not uncommon to overbid with monster hands, only to go down when pard doesn't have enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 I don't consider step responses showing HCP remotely standard (or particularly useful) I agree Richard and 2♦ is the only way to show this monster and any kind of ♥ fit is wrong cause partner may have only 3 cards for his 1♥ bid :P Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Richard: 1. What is your auction for finding a slam with♠ 93♥ Q832♦ 9873♣ QJ3after a 2D response? I'm sure you have one,I'm just curious. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Pard is showing around 0-7 HCP and 4+ hearts. 0-7 is OK but can be 3 cards in my book ! Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Richard: 1. What is your auction for finding a slam with♠ 93♥ Q832♦ 9873♣ QJ3after a 2D response? I'm sure you have one,I'm just curious. Peter Euh ? :P With that I think game is clearly enough ! Which slam do you want to play with that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Richard: 1. What is your auction for finding a slam with♠ 93♥ Q832♦ 9873♣ QJ3after a 2D response? I'm sure you have one,I'm just curious. Peter I doubt that I can come up with a good auction to find slam with the hand in question. I'm not even sure that I want to be in slam with these two hands... Myy main intention was to dispute your assertion that partner is well positioned to make an intelligent decision after a blast to 4♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 I'm going with 2♦. If partner insists, I might leave this in 3♥, but on the other hand slam isn't out of the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 This feels marginal between 3♥ and 4♥. Not sure I like 2♦ - is it still possible to show 4♥ but a hand not worth forcing to game on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted December 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 ... is it still possible to show 4♥ but a hand not worth forcing to game on? Certainly, 2♥. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 I'm finding myself too easily persuaded here...I had one person tell me that 4♥ was an underbid, so I decided I would definitely bid 4♥ and not 3; Now Roland has told me he would bid 2♥, so I've decided that 4♥ is insane and 3♥ is just right :P Whether 2♥ is reasonable depends upon its lower limit, which in turn depends on the range for 1♥. For me 2♥ would be a definite underbid, but I can imagine a style in which it is normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Seems to me with a 2C opener that you double and q-bid to show it and then pard knows what you have generally and there is room to explore for specifics. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 btw, is a dbl then jump q-bid looking for a stopper and denying 3 card support for pard or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrows Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 2♦, let partner make another descriptive bid if possible. Over partner's 2♥, I will try 2NT. To this point, partner should know I have a strong balanced handa little below game-forcing, definitely with ♥ support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 A practical 4♥ for me. Might this go down? Yeah, sure. But 4♥ has play opposite Qxxx of heart and out, or five small hearts and out. I'm not going to stop short of game on this hand. Could we have slam? Well, it's possible. And I don't really expect partner to bid slam over 4♥. But there are plenty of fairly decent hands for partner that don't make slam (say xxx QJxxx xxx Kx or Kxx QJxxx xx xxx). Partner didn't jump over the double and I'm going to assume RHO has something resembling a first-seat opening bid, so the only hands that really make slam seem to include doubleton spade for partner. It's going to be hard to get partner to make the right decision here, and the more aggressively I push the more likely we end up too high on six-counts with five hearts like those examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 3H. No guaranteed game here. Partner needs to hold some shape or a card or two. IMO, partner's input is needed. Winston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe de Balliol Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 4♥ seems absolutely automatic. You *could* be missing a slam. You *could* be reaching a non-making game. But if you play pard to have xxx xxx xxxx xxx you're hardly ever doubling in the first place. 4♥ is the practical bid. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 2D Why the heck did I not bid 2D the first time? Please don't say I am required to play one of those 2 suited conventions that people play that mean I have some random 2 suited hand with random placement of hcp and unknown strength? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 2D Why the heck did I not bid 2D the first time? You started with a double because you're playing standard methods. I recognize that some people like to use a direct cue bid as showing a strong hand. I'm surprised that any of them have adapted to use a new fangled contraption like a computer... For what its worth, it seems strange to criticize Michaels type cue bids as being too random. My recollection is that these methods were adopted because they show amuch more narrow set of hand types that the any old strong hand bid that preceeded it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 I voted for 2♦, and I agree 100% (I'd like to agree more strongly, but only athletes are allowed to give more than 100%) that 'step responses' to this are highly non-standard: I'd never heard of such a scheme and it seems unplayable. 2♦, unfortunately, is hardly a complete answer, since one has merely bought a little time. However, the only other call that comes close to describing this hand is 2N: a double followed by 2N should show 21-23 or so: double followed by 1N is a hand too strong for a 1N overcall (which would show, in standard, 15+-18, hence double then 1N is 19-20). The strength is right for 2N, but the 4 card ♥ fit is one big reason for not bidding 2N. My main fear is that we are going to need entries to partner's hand, or this hand will play much worse than its high card strength would usually suggest. We can get to his hand either through high cards or through ♥. The auction suggests the latter is more likely than the former: even if he has some high card strength, opener may be sitting over his cards. I bid 2♦. If he rebids ♥, I will hope that he has not been caught with xxx xxx xxxx xxx and I will bid 3♥. If he bids anything else: well, it depends on what that is. In my dreams, he bids 2N :P and I raise: getting the added bonus of having opener on lead. Question: how do we rebid over 2♦? Do we (with partner's hand) require more than a yarborough to bid another suit? Say we held xxxx xxxx xx xxx, would we rebid 2♥ or 2♠? Next question, is my proposed sequence of 2♦ followed by a raise of 2♥ to 3♥, forcing or only extremely invitational? If not forcing, how do I create a force with a hand on which I have strong slam ambitions: AKQxxx AKxx x Ax? I have opinions on these, but my experience is that sequences beginning with takeout doubles are amongst the least understood for the majority of us, and it might be interesting to see the answers proffered by others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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