It's not a Joke!

[Kalvan14]

[hv=d=w&v=e&s=sk9xhaktdqtcaktxx]133|100|Scoring: MP

(1S)-5C-(P)-?[/hv]

 

Well, this hand came really out at the club last night.

What are you bidding?

[hrothgar]

6N

[pclayton]

Richard, are you reading this right? Its PARD that bid 5♣. How can we think about 6N when we might be off the entire diamond suit?

 

I'll just try 6♣. I have no idea how good my hearts or spades are, but this dummy can't be a dissapointment.

[hrothgar]

Richard, are you reading this right? Its PARD that bid 5♣. How can we think about 6N when we might be off the entire diamond suit?

As Phil surmised, i thought partner had opened 1S

 

make me down for 5♣ as well

[pbleighton]

I'm passing. We are favorable, pd has 7 or 8 clubs and probably not much else, at this vulnerability. My SK is probably worthless. 6C may make, but..

 

Peter

[Kalvan14]

I've to say that after an agonizing moment, I chickened out and passed.

[hv=d=w&v=e&n=s6h632da4cqj97653&w=saqj84h9854dk752c&e=st753hqj7dj9863c2&s=sk92haktdqtcakt84]399|300|Scoring: MP

(1S)-5C-All P[/hv]

 

As the cards lie, 6N is there. Or 6C. OTOH, pard might not have an A, or the stiff spade. It would be funny if he had A♠, btw

 

How would you understand 5N by S? Might it be understood as a sign-off?

[pclayton]

Pretty wow 5♣ call by your pard.

[Robert]

Hi Kalvan14

 

5NT might be a sign off after prior agreement, however, your partnership would likely be the only pair on this planet to have that agreement. ;)

 

I am impressed. I did not think that you would know what a strip squeeze was.

 

Do you always 'read' the end position correctly? Some of us come down to

the diamond King and Ace(?) of spades in the three card ending.

 

Hi pclayton

 

Wow indeed.

 

Kalvan14's partnerships are not known for underbidding.

 

Regards,

Robert

[flytoox]

Not a big deal to miss such a slam. I will just pass 5C and pray pd make it.

[Free]

There's a lot to say for 5NT some kind of blackwood. However, with the ♣ suit it might not work anyway... I'd just bid 6♣ and pray for some ♦ stopper

[pbleighton]

"Pretty wow 5♣ call by your pard."

 

At favorable, 5C isn't a stretch with this in my primary partnership. This is why I passed :P

 

Peter

[whereagles]

This problem is nonsense if you don't tell us what pard's preemptive style is. If solid, bid 6NT (pard will have the diam ace). If he's reckless, pass is obvious.

[awm]

This would be an automatic pass for me. To make slam, I need partner to have first round and second round control in spades and diamonds. At favorable partner doesn't need much beyond the other eight clubs, so it seems a lot to hope for partner to have both these features.

 

Even opposite the actual hand, where partner has both ♦A and singleton spade, slam only makes because both the ♥QJ are onside. It seems like partner happened to have perfect cards for a slam bid, and it's still very lucky to make.

[Fluffy]

I would bid 6♣ on teh hope partner has ♦K and ♠void, this bidding has no sense unless he's got 5♦+7♣

[Kalvan14]

Pretty wow 5♣ call by your pard.

I passed, didn't I?

Out of the joke, pard is consistent, at least. And he has this weakness for high-level pre-empts. I can live with it.

Mind, we are talking about a possible slam. If he passes (or maybe bids 3♣), slam would be out of the question, and I'd be playing 3N

[Joe de Balliol]

I'd expect partner to hold eight clubs and not much else for his bid, so I pass without thinking hard. I'm okay missing this slam.

 

J

[mr1303]

I would shoot my partner if he bid 5C on those cards. Certainly I would not give any thought to passing, and be concerned about missing a grand: 6C would be on the table like a shot.

[Winstonm]

I don't see the value of a second seat 5C call here. RHO has opened already so now there are only 2 hands for which problems may be created - LHO and partner. IMO, bids of this sort are either an attempt to mastermind the hand or simply trying to turn the bidding into a crapshoot - unless 5 clubs is always this weak. It can't be a 7 loser hand one time and a 5 loser hand the next time unless you simply like guessing games.

 

I don't see where twelve tricks are coming from in either nt or clubs. In clubs, if RHO after this auction makes the very reasonable lead of the spade 10, expecting shortness in declarer's hand, where is the 12th trick? In 6N it would be foolish to lead a spade - a heart looks right - and as opener on the run of the clubs is discarding after dummy, there is no squeeze or strip squeeze.

 

All in all, I'd rather give the opponents these headaches instead of my pard.

 

Winston

[Guest Jlall]

All in all, I'd rather give the opponents these headaches instead of my pard.

depends who your pard is :P

[Kalvan14]

I would shoot my partner if he bid 5C on those cards. Certainly I would not give any thought to passing, and be concerned about missing a grand: 6C would be on the table like a shot.

Pre-empts with belt and suspenders are not our style. Which might be right or wrong: one has to judge over a long run, not on the single hand. The important thing is being consistent.

 

Therefore, while for you the question is btween 6 and 7, for me is between 5 and 6, with a bias for 5.

[Winstonm]

All in all, I'd rather give the opponents these headaches instead of my pard.

depends who your pard is :)

Well, I didn't know I was playing with you. ;)

 

Winston

[Finch]

For me I'd be looking for 6 or 7 over a 5C pre-empt. I wouldn't be thinking of 6NT, I'd expect partner to have something resembling

 

-

x

Kxxx

QJxxxxxx

 

to have anything resembling his call.

 

(in fact, my partnerships don't play 1S - 2NT for the minors, so partner could be 0157 as well)

 

If partner's hand is consistent with your style, then perhaps you should have said you don't play normal pre-empts.

[Fluffy]

For me I'd be looking for 6 or 7 over a 5C pre-empt. I wouldn't be thinking of 6NT, I'd expect partner to have something resembling

 

-

x

Kxxx

QJxxxxxx

 

to have anything resembling his call.

Hehe, almost what I sais except I expected 5♦ and 7♣

[Kalvan14]

For me I'd be looking for 6 or 7 over a 5C pre-empt. I wouldn't be thinking of 6NT, I'd expect partner to have something resembling

 

-

x

Kxxx

QJxxxxxx

 

to have anything resembling his call.

 

(in fact, my partnerships don't play 1S - 2NT for the minors, so partner could be 0157 as well)

 

If partner's hand is consistent with your style, then perhaps you should have said you don't play normal pre-empts.

Why should this hand be better than the one my pard had? You are in any case committed to play clubs (I'd really like to see a 5♦ coming up, shadows of B/L :rolleyes: ). If it might have been even a 0-1-5-7, I can only shudder.

 

We play reasonably aggreessive pre-empts, no belt-and-suspenders type: this I said. 3♣ would be a gross understatement for his hand, and 4♣ one of those wishy-washy bids which just push oppos to game.

 

Btw, I'd like to know what is a definition of "normal pre-empt" for the general case, and for a specific auction 1M-5m. Pls. refrain from explaining the rule of 2 & 3.

[Finch]

Why should this hand be better than the one my pard had?

 

Difficult to answer without stating the obvious: because it has enormously more playing strength.

 

As a general comment: 4C is (in general) not just a wishy-washy bid that just pushes the opponents into game. It takes away a lot of room for investigation and it allows partner to save over their game (or slam). There's another thread here where there's discussion of the right call after (2C) P (2D) and a few people have commented that bidding 2H is a waste of time because it doesn't pre-empt. No, it doesn't, but it's not a waste of time because (on that hand) it gets the right lead, and - in general - it does allow partner to raise.