NAOP - Hand III

[pclayton]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=skt5hqj954da96cj5]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

Opps are silent. Pard opens 1♠, you respond a forcing NT, and pard bids 2♠. You raise to 3 and pard now tries 3N.

 

Your call?

[pbleighton]

Pass. Trust partner - he suggested 3NT and you are balanced.

 

Peter

[mike777]

4s Trust partner. Partner asked me if I have ruffing values and I do.

[luke warm]

4♠ ... btw, what was 2♠, phil? 6 or 5332 not good nuff for 2nt?

[pclayton]

2♠ guarantees at least 6. 3N seems to be some sort of 6232 or the like.

[joker_gib]

4s Trust partner. Partner asked me if I have ruffing values and I do.

Agree with Mike. Don't want to play 3NT with the 2 clubs.

 

This can be wrong but I prefer to play in the fit.

 

Alain

[Fluffy]

Take a risk or take an average, ♠K asks to play in NT, its easy to see some golden hands for 3NT and also some dreadful ones.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

since 2 S promises 6 card, I would play in the

6-3 fit.

 

Especially if he would have bid a 4 card suit,

because in this case most likely there will be

at least 8 clubs out side.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[mcphee]

In a pairs event I think we should be with the field on this hand type and while it is tempting to pass 3N I am not about to gamble I can produce only 10 tricks in both of the game choices. It also seems to me that the lead into the Spade hand is more favorable for us. For me if partner bids 3N in this position it shows 6 good S and caters to my hand having only 2 trumps. After all this is the last chance to play that strain, so my expectations here are AQJxxx and some side A and a QJ . A good point for partnerships to discuss.

[mikeh]

I voted for 4♠. My 3♠ call only promised 2 ♠, and I could well have been 4432 or such, in which case partner suggested the 9 trick game. Here my ♣ holding persuades me that 4♠ is better. If he has 3 ♣, then he can probably score a ruff for an extra trick. If he has 2♣, then he needs AK or AQ and the K onside or we are potentially in serious trouble in 3N on a ♣ lead.

 

I am not a stellar matchpoint player, but from my discussions with (and terrifying experiences playing with) some who are, it seems to me that this is not the type of situation in which matchpont mavens try to win the board by playing 3N. Let's trust partner to outplay the majority of the field and get our average plus that way.

[Al_U_Card]

Wow, interesting and painful.......pard has 11-12 hcp and a 6 card suit with his honor cards elsewhere. You have an 8 loser hand for S (take one away for the 9 card fit and good S honors, so say 7) and he may too. 3NT may be the only making game, but you have a ready made reason in the dbltn C and the good quality trump support to go back to S. A club lead is likely and having it go into his hand will not be terrible. 4S

[mikeh]

Wow, interesting and painful.......pard has 11-12 hcp and a 6 card suit with his honor cards elsewhere.  You have an 8 loser hand for S (take one away for the 9 card fit and good S honors, so say 7) and he may too.  3NT may be the only making game, but you have a ready made reason in the dbltn C and the good quality trump support to go back to S.  A club lead is likely and having it go into his hand will not be terrible. 4S

Wow. We have a basic disagreement here. If my partner held 11-12 hcp and a poor suit, I would expect him to pass 3♠ and to hope that we make. He, instead, forced to game opposite a hand that could be worse than the one I hold: I would have bid the same way with Kx Qxxxx Axx Jxx.

[han]

Partner's 3NT is a suggestion, not placing the contract. I have an extra spade and weak clubs, something partner doesn't know. 4S seems absolutely clear.

 

(edited a typo)

[pclayton]

I bid 4♠ too, but I tanked for about 2 minutes. Here's the way I see it:

 

Advantages of 4♠:

 

1. 3rd trump (unknown to pard)

2. Ruffing value in clubs - which might make spades play a trick better

3. Potential problem in clubs

4. We're doing well, so play in the field contract.

 

Advantages of 3N:

 

1. Soft and scattered values

2. 9 tricks are cheaper than 10

3. NT scores better.

 

Pard actually held: AQJxxx, Kx, Qx, Qxx. He got a diamond lead to the King, but they butchered the defense later and didn't cash out. I think the best game is probably 3N from HIS side, but thats impossible.

[mike777]

I bid 4♠ too, but I tanked for about 2 minutes. Here's the way I see it:

 

Advantages of 4♠:

 

1. 3rd trump (unknown to pard)

2. Ruffing value in clubs - which might make spades play a trick better

3. Potential problem in clubs

4. We're doing well, so play in the field contract.

 

Advantages of 3N:

 

1. Soft and scattered values

2. 9 tricks are cheaper than 10

3. NT scores better.

 

Pard actually held: AQJxxx, Kx, Qx, Qxx. He got a diamond lead to the King, but they butchered the defense later and didn't cash out. I think the best game is probably 3N from HIS side, but thats impossible.

It gives hope to us Non flight A players that even flight A players butcher the defense at times.

[Al_U_Card]

Wow, interesting and painful.......pard has 11-12 hcp and a 6 card suit with his honor cards elsewhere.  You have an 8 loser hand for S (take one away for the 9 card fit and good S honors, so say 7) and he may too.  3NT may be the only making game, but you have a ready made reason in the dbltn C and the good quality trump support to go back to S.  A club lead is likely and having it go into his hand will not be terrible. 4S

Wow. We have a basic disagreement here. If my partner held 11-12 hcp and a poor suit, I would expect him to pass 3♠ and to hope that we make. He, instead, forced to game opposite a hand that could be worse than the one I hold: I would have bid the same way with Kx Qxxxx Axx Jxx.

Okay, I saw the auction as; if I had a max invite with 2 small trump I could still bid 2NT (usually only 1 S card, but still) so the 3S raise tends (for me at least) to show an invitational hand with HH or Hxx. (I could pass 2 S with less than a good invite..)

[Kalvan14]

I would have likely passed 3N (the most important consideration against passing would be our good scoring up to now, which would suggest not to make anti-field decisions).

I would certainly pass 3N at IMP

[Fluffy]

Advantages of 4♠:

 

1. 3rd trump (unknown to pard)

I find the third trump fully irrelevant to this discusion. It might help to stop ♣s (that is point 2), nothing else.

[pclayton]

The 3rd trump is pretty valuable if we play 4S. Not only does it helps pard's trump suit but it also gives us an extra trick when pard has 3 clubs.

 

My 3S raise does not gurantee 3 trump. I would gladly make the call on: Qx, AKxxx, Qxx, xxx and similar hands.

 

Pard's 3N is just a suggestion of a place to play. There are many hands where I hold scattered cards and 2 spades where 3N is superior.

[Fluffy]

Again phil :) the third spade helps more in NT to run the ♠s than in 4♠ where you can afford a loser.

 

It only helps to ruff the ♣, ,don't make 2 points were it is actually one :)

[Free]

Can we get the full hand plz? I'm just curious B)

[pclayton]

[hv=d=n&n=saqjxxxhkxdqxcqxx&w=sxxhaxdkxxxckxxxx&e=sxxhtxxxdjtxxcatx&s=sktxhqj9xxdaxxcjx]399|300|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

I think it was this Frederick, but I tossed the record.

[Guest Jlall]

Pass, I love my hand for NT and they don't always make the best lead which is often what this will come down to. In the NAOP it's ok to go for it on these kinds of gambles since you need to be top 2. In qualifying I would bid 4S.

[flytoox]

I personally think you should not have this problem. After pd's 2S, I think you should raise to 4S directly rather than invite with 3S.