Your bid over unusual 2NT

[inquiry]

This hand came up recently. If it makes any difference to you, you are playing a weak notrump, so that partner's 1D is either extra distribution (not balanced) or extra values Would that consideration make any difference in your response over 2NT?

 

Explain your entire defensive structure here if it helps understand your choice. Thanks,

 

Ben

[luis]

Pass, waiting.

 

I play the following simple structure:

 

Dbl: Penalty double in one or both suits

3 of pd suit: Competitive

3 of new suit: Competitive

Lower cue: Forcing with support in pd's suit

Higher cue: Forcing with 5+ cards in the unbid suit

 

So I guess I have to pass. If they bid 3c badk to me I can esily double for takeout after I already denied having a penalty double.

I like my hand a lot, KJ in pd's suit and AK in the remaining suit with no wasted values in their suits....

 

Luis

[hrothgar]

Hi Ben

 

I normally play Unusual over Unusual

In this case:

 

3S = Competitive hand with Spades

3H = Game forcing hand with Spades

3D = Competitive

3C = Good Diamond raise (limit raise +)

X = Values, willing to double at least one of their contracts or cooperate towards 3NT

 

Pass followed by a double is takeout oriented and weaker than an immediate double.

 

Given this as a choice, I lean towards double. However, if we are red versus white I would probably cue bid 3C, hoping that partner has positional stoppers for a 3NT contract.

[luis]

Hi Ben

 

I normally play Unusual over Unusual

In this case:

 

3S = Competitive hand with Spades

3H = Game forcing hand with Spades

3D = Competitive

3C = Good Diamond raise (limit raise +)

X = Values, willing to double at least one of their contracts or cooperate towards 3NT

 

Pass followed by a double is takeout oriented and weaker than an immediate double.

 

Given this as a choice, I lean towards double. However, if we are red versus white I would probably cue bid 3C, hoping that partner has positional stoppers for a 3NT contract.

 

Richard,

How can you play the same structure I play and pick a different bid?

Bridge is a wonderful game :-)

[inquiry]

I play the exact same structure as both of you. The reason pass looks clear, is that if they bid clubs, you can make a takeout double. The reason dbl looks good, if the bid hearts you can make a penalty double, and if they bid clubs, maybe partner can make a takeout double.

 

My choice is pass, and I believe pass and then come back in shows this kind of hand. Besides if they bid hearts, I expect partner usually will be able to make a takeout double after my pass (he will be short) and I can make a penalty pass, and if they bid clubs, I can double.

 

Real world, my partner doubled (which isn't that horrible of a choice I guess), but the bidding continued...

 

1D-(2NT)-DBL-(4C); P-(P)-?

 

Now what do you bid? My partner found the bid of pass, having endplayed himself on the auction. Somehow, I never suspected a pass or I would have done something else with my hand as opener. 4C was down three (not vul), and we could make NS 4H (yes, 4H's, despite 5-0 split) or 5D despite the heart void and a 4-1 diamond split (the play in both become double dummy, and the play in 5D in particular is fun... you squeeze the unusual NT bidder down to QJx of hearts and you have to unblock the heart Ten , and then you duck a heart towards him, to force him to lead away from honor small into your Honor-nine. The full hands were (abalucy event)...

 

T6

AK97

A97542

A

Q987 J54

void QJ532

T863 Q

KT932 QJ84

AK32

T864

KJ

765

 

This is another hand, where I thought my pass over 4C was forcing... clearly my partner was not on the same wavelegnth. Note, declearer did not give this best play as she should never be down three. Four hearts or 5D making would be nice swing for us. Even 4Cx down two wins imps. Oh well...

 

Ben

[hrothgar]

Richard,

How can you play the same structure I play and pick a different bid?

Bridge is a wonderful game :-)

 

I should comment that I am making an assumption about the 2NT overcall.

Most good pairs play some kind of Good/Bad structure when making a Michaels cue bid or an unusual 2NT overcall.

 

Lets assume that partner holds 13 HCP for his opening.

I'm sitting on another 10.

 

This makes it very likely that RHO is sitting on the weak hand type.

Accordingly, I consider it imperative to let partner know that I have values.

Pass followed by a balancing double should show a much weaker hand.

We'll never find game if its right.

[mishovnbg]

Dbl: Penalty double in one or both suits, any next dbl from both p is penalty

3 of pd suit: Competitive

3 of new suit: Competitive

Lower cue: limit+, lower side suit ( fit or 5+)

Higher cue: limit+, higer side suit ( fit or 5+)

 

Pass: deny above hands, can be strong, next dbl will be optional

 

My bid is pass...

 

Playing team match, in vul against not vul:

 

KJxx

J1098

Ax

XXX

 

Bidding:

 

2NT(5+-5+ minors, 7-11) - DBL(1) - 4DI - ?

 

1. penalty for 1 or both of minors

 

What you will bid and why? If you passed, your p dbl again... Now?

Misho

[inquiry]

Playing team match, in vul against not vul:

 

KJxx

J1098

Ax

XXX

 

Bidding:

 

2NT(5+-5+ minors, 7-11) - DBL(1) - 4DI - ?

 

1. penalty for 1 or both of minors

 

What you will bid and why? If you passed, your p dbl again... Now?

 

Hi Misho,

 

As usual we are on teh same wavelength with respect to the hand I proposed, so I will skip over your excellent comments there and get to the interesting hand you show here.

 

I don't know what your partner is playing. I think UvU is not nearly as effective if your partner has not bid (AS in this case where they simply open 2NT or with some other terrorist 2NT type bid). But here is what I like on this specific auction (after the 2NT opening bid).

 

a) (2NT) - DBL = cooperative kind of dbl aimed at penalty.

 

:) (2NT)-3C = weak takeout

 

c) (2NT)-3D = strong takeout

 

d) (2NT) - 3H/3S suit shown, constructive, I balance back in later if not constructive

 

Now would this structure help us on this hand. You betcha. If partner had a weak takeout hand, he would have bid 3C and we could have made a responsive double over 3D to find our fit at the three level. If partner had a good takeout double he would have bid 3D over 2NT and we could have bid 4D to find our best fit at the four level. And with partner doubling 2NT and then 3D, we could pass happy that we have made the right bid.

 

Without such agreements, questions might pop into your mind about what to bid here. Perhpas my defense to this 2NT bid is not very sophisticated, but as it has been said many times here in this forum, ANY AGREEMENT is better than no agreement.

 

Ben

[mishovnbg]

 

I don't know what your partner is playing. I think UvU is not nearly as effective if your partner has not bid (AS in this case where they simply open 2NT or with some other terrorist 2NT type bid). But here is what I like on this specific auction (after the 2NT opening bid).

 

a) (2NT) - DBL = cooperative kind of dbl aimed at penalty.

 

:) (2NT)-3C = weak takeout

 

c) (2NT)-3D = strong takeout

 

d) (2NT) - 3H/3S suit shown, constructive, I balance back in later if not constructive

 

Now would this structure help us on this hand. You betcha. If partner had a weak takeout hand, he would have bid 3C and we could have made a responsive double over 3D to find our fit at the three level. If partner had a good takeout double he would have bid 3D over 2NT and we could have bid 4D to find our best fit at the four level. And with partner doubling 2NT and then 3D, we could pass happy that we have made the right bid.

 

Without such agreements, questions might pop into your mind about what to bid here. Perhpas my defense to this 2NT bid is not very sophisticated, but as it has been said many times here in this forum, ANY AGREEMENT is better than no agreement.

 

Ben

 

Hi Ben!

I had only agreement "UVU". But way you play(I like it), bid remain same - dbl and if you pass, dbl again. Dont forget, you are in vul, they - no. (By the way your opps are national players, your p is "star" player).

But even after your p is open and opp bid U2NT, dbl, 4 fit in minor, then: dbl is for penalty or not? And if it is penalty, what do u bid with take out, say with both majors as in my post?

Misho

[inquiry]

Hi Ben!

I had only agreement "UVU". But way you play(I like it), bid remain same - dbl and if you pass, dbl again. Dont forget, you are in vul, they - no. (By the way your opps are national players, your p is "star" player).

But even after your p is open and opp bid U2NT, dbl, 4 fit in minor, then: dbl is for penalty or not? And if it is penalty, what do u bid with take out, say with both majors as in my post?

 

Let me see if I can dissect partners possible auctions.... using my structure.

 

Over 2NT with one minor and both majors, he could make takeout bid in either minor. With one major and one minor he could double. With a relatively balanced hand, he could PASS and then balance back in with an optional double (since 3C is WEAK TAKEOUT, and 3D is STRONG TAKEOUT). Therefore with my hand I think I will pass 3Dx, certainly at imps. At MP, there might be a case for 3NT. Partner rates to have 3D and 3 or 4 Clubs on this auction. They are in a likely 8 card fit. I will start diamond ace and continue diamonds. The only great fear at imps despite the vulnerability is that if we miss slam, but partner has both minors on this auction, so slam is somewhat of a long shot.

 

So, can partner be 4-3-2-4 or 3-4-2-4 and bid this way? I think not. I think he is obligated to pass and then pull out the optional double when they run out to the minor at the three level.

[Free]

I bid pass. Dbl is to play at least suit doubled, all the other bids promise 5-cards and stuff. If ops bid 3 in a suit, I can still bid S or Dbl to show S...

[mishovnbg]

Hi Ben, Free!

Hands:

 

KJxx AQ10x

J1098 AKxx

Ax Q10 ( x was corrected to 10)

XXX A10x

 

Bidding:

 

2NT(5+-5+ minors, 7-11) - DBL(1) - 4DI - Pass

Pass - DBL - Pass - 4HE

all pass

 

Lead: K CL

 

1. How bids by your way must be?

3. How do you play 4HE?

 

Misho

[inquiry]

Hands:

 

KJxx AQ10x

J1098 AKxx

Ax Qx

XXX A10x

 

Bidding:

 

2NT(5+-5+ minors, 7-11) - DBL(1) - 4DI - Pass

Pass - DBL - Pass - 4HE

all pass

 

Lead: K CL

 

1. How bids by your way must be?

 

2NT-3D-4D-DBL

Pass-4H-P-P-P

 

3Diamond=strong takeout, 4D-X = responsive. Alternatively, instead of responsive dbl just bid game.

 

 

2. How do you play 4HE?

 

Duck first club, planning on endplaying north with a third round of clubs later. Plan is win second club. Heart AK, if no heart queen drops... how many hearts norht have. If one, cash 4Spades (south will follow) and throw north in with club. If north happened to have 3 hearts, he will eventually ruff a spade or be enplayed in clubs. Then will have to lead a diamond away from hoped for diamond king or give up ruff and sluff.

[Free]

1) My bidding:

2NT - p - 4D - p

p - Dbl - p - 4S

p - p - p

 

The double can't be penalties, otherwise you would've doubled in the first place (penalty Dbl in at least one suit). And I'd probably bid 4S with 2 honours...

 

2) Where is number 2?? ::)

 

3) Playing 4H: do I have H7 btw??? You'll probably lose 1 H, 1 D and 2 C. I go for a throw in with my rho.

 

If I have H7, it's easy: I take CA (in case of 6C in openers hand), play HA and HK. If rho follows suit, he has 1S, otherwise 2. So I eliminate his spades, and play C10. Done :) If he plays D, ruff with H7 and throw away Dx.

If I haven't got H7: worst case scenario is when lho has xxx-Q7xx-Jxxx-xx and that I can't make - checked it with a double dummy program... Even with H7 I can't make it when opponent ruffs the third club.

 

Playing 4S is similar, whitout problems... :)

[inquiry]

 

If I haven't got H7: worst case scenario is when lho has xxx-Q7xx-Jxxx-xx and that I can't make - checked it with a double dummy program... Even with H7 I can't make it when opponent ruffs the third club.

 

There is a difference between double dummy problem solver and beating the contract. Your opponent will have to be tip top defender to ruff his partner's good club trick (necessary to take him off the endplay on the club winner). Of course, the experts will work out this ruff partners trick, and many advanced players would too. Real world, you make against a lot of players with this hand.

 

Problem with passing the north hand.. at this vul, bidding might go 2N-P-P-P... accepting down a ton... :-)

 

Ben

[Free]

This is exactly my way of play, but against this hand, you won't make the contract! If you have to ruff in dummy, you give away the control in H. I just used this program to check if I really didn't oversee something. Ofcourse, it all depends on DK and the number of H and S...

 

Btw, I don't need another double dummy program, because it's a three time world champion computerbridge (the last 3 years) and it works just fine.

 

And euhm, with such a bidding (2NT-p-p-?), I expect my partner to double!