calling all experts

[jillybean]

Indeed I get nervous under the lgihts but so what. I would also be happy to instead observe other struggling souls, and I know well the dictum about stones and glass houses.

Funny, thats what everyone is saying

I know I can't function too well with people watching,,especially Ben :ph34r:

 

jb

[kenberg]

I had to leave after a bit more than an hour but I enjoyed it greatly. Thanks to Hannie and to Jillybean.

 

 

I hope we can do more of this.

 

Ken

[Double !]

I thought that today's lesson on counting a hand was excellent, that all of the participants showed a lot of guts by sitting at the table, and that the session was conducted masterfully. WDs and kudos to Hannie (er. Prof. Hannie - "yo, teach!"), and to JB for first suggesting and then setting this whole thing up. There was a fair amount of discussion in the peanut gallery about the various hands including bidding decisions on some of the hands. So, in reality, many more people participated than only those that sat at the table, and many people benefitted from this joint enterprise.

I, for one, look forward to the next endeavor/ lesson.

 

WD everyone.

 

DHL

[han]

I think we will do this more often, probably again before the end of the year. There were a lot of people I thought, and many forum members came to watch (also some who were just dropping in to say hi, which was nice). Matt provided analysis for the kibitzers, which meant I only had to talk with the players. Ben was there too and whispered some pointers into my ear. I had a lot of fun.

[jillybean]

Great session thanks Han, it was well received and hopefully we will see some more. :(

 

I will see if we can get some tournaments or ‘think with ____’ sessions started with some of the other volunteers.

[Chamaco]

Yes, Kudos to Han and JB :-)

 

Another special thank to Echognome, who provided onn many hands a quick nontrivial analysis of card play for kibitzers.

[luke warm]

great job by han, great idea jilly had, loved matt's comments... can't wait to watch the volunteers go once more into the breech

[kenberg]

Many of us played/watched a collection of several hands. It might be consistent with the educational intent to bring a few of them up for discussion. Here is one that I misplayed (although at no cost).

 

 

 

 

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=sjhqj874d975c8652&w=sakqt85hkt3d6cj94&e=s962ha96dqt84ct73&s=s743h52dakj32cakq]399|300|Scoring: Imps?[/hv]

 

 

I decided not to rotate the hands, all players being equal. I was west and played 2S on the auction

P-P-1D-1S

P-1NT-2D-2S

All Pass

Diamond to the J, Diamond ace ruffed, TWO trumps drawn, club led.

 

Clearly I have my 8 tricks, the issue is 9. I was thinking the outstanding trump was harmless and I would offer rho this safe out so that I could win in hand, run trumps, hope for a favorable discard. I got it.

 

As the cards lie, I think nothing can be done to take 9 tricks legitimately. However, after hearing of the long diamonds on my right and seeing three spades on my right, there is a fair chance there is Qx or Jx of hearts on my right. If so, playing the third round of trump and then the club brings in 9 tricks.

 

The par result (using "par" to mean the result that will be reached if we all make our best guesses) is 3S doubled down 1, since 3D appears to be (somewhat luckily) making. Had N bid 3D over my 2S, E would have had a challenging decision.

[mike777]

Many of us played/watched a collection of several hands. It might be consistent with the educational intent to bring a few of them up for discussion. Here is one that I misplayed (although at no cost).

 

 

 

 

 

<!-- FULLHAND begin --><table border=1> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> N </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> NS </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> Imps? </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> </th> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> J </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> QJ874 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> 975 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> 8652 </td> </tr> </table> </th> <th> </th> </tr> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> AKQT85 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> KT3 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> 6 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> J94 </td> </tr> </table> </th> <th> </th> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> 962 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> A96 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> QT84 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> T73 </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> <tr> <th> </th> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> 743 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> 52 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> AKJ32 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> AKQ </td> </tr> </table> </th> <th> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- FULLHAND end -->

 

 

I decided not to rotate the hands, all players being equal. I was west and played 2S on the auction

P-P-1D-1S

P-1NT-2D-2S

All Pass

Diamond to the J, Diamond ace ruffed, TWO trumps drawn, club led.

 

Clearly I have my 8 tricks, the issue is 9. I was thinking the outstanding trump was harmless and I would offer rho this safe out so that I could win in hand, run trumps, hope for a favorable discard. I got it.

 

As the cards lie, I think nothing can be done to take 9 tricks legitimately. However, after hearing of the long diamonds on my right and seeing three spades on my right, there is a fair chance there is Qx or Jx of hearts on my right. If so, playing the third round of trump and then the club brings in 9 tricks.

 

The par result (using "par" to mean the result that will be reached if we all make our best guesses) is 3S doubled down 1, since 3D appears to be (somewhat luckily) making. Had N bid 3D over my 2S, E would have had a challenging decision.

Sorry I missed the event, sounds very worthwhile.

Hopefully this is a good place to discuss the above hand and a few of the bidding issues it raises?

 

It seems ok to compete aggressively for partscores at IMps but have not heard much on this issue. One issue is perhaps the opp's are less inclined to double you?

 

It seems clear to bid 3d with the north hand after south has made a freebid of 2D and you have short spades. Would be interesting to hear about the bidding in an "over the shoulder" style.

 

As for counting, it seems the Defense slipped up if Qx or JX is doubleton. On the lead of the 5D and declarer playing the 6 of D it seems clear to cash clubs now and get a count and not wait and get endplayed. Declarer will have the stiff on this lead and bidding.

[luke warm]

i remember this hand.. after the ♦A is trumped, play one round of trumps.. when you see the jack drop, lead the ♠8 to the 9 and lead the ♦10.. if it's covered, ruff and lead a heart to the ace... toss a heart on the ♦Q, ruff a diamond, draw trumps and give up 3 clubs

 

i think you had the 2 entries necessary to play a ruffing finesse

[kenberg]

i remember this hand.. after the ♦A is trumped, play one round of trumps.. when you see the jack drop, lead the ♠8 to the 9 and lead the ♦10.. if it's covered, ruff and lead a heart to the ace... toss a heart on the ♦Q, ruff a diamond, draw trumps and give up 3 clubs

 

i think you had the 2 entries necessary to play a ruffing finesse

Ah yes. I really gave the hand too little thought, even later.

 

So:

Defense begins

Diamond to J, switch.

Three rounds of clubs

Get out with a trump.

Now is declarer held to 8 tricks?

 

The fact that the second diamond made a ruffing finesse possible (assuming only that the opponent who had bid diamonds twice had the top honors) just slid right past me. I knew discussing these hands was a good idea. Humbling maybe, but useful.

 

Any thoughts on 3D? It appears to me it makes, although perhaps it would not always be made at the table.

 

Ken

[han]

This was an interesting hand indeed. I remember that Matt commented that he also would open 1D witht he south hand, even though it is balanced and has 15-17 points. I would have opened 1NT, even though there are two weak suits. As the bidding went I would have bid 3D with the north hand. South has bid diamonds twice, the second time after north passed, so south likely has a decent hand and 6 good diamonds. Letting the opponents play in 2S when you have a stiff won't often give you a good score.

 

 

As was pointed out, declarer can make 9 tricks after the diamond ace is played. But perhaps north has lead a stiff diamond and wants a ruff, how would south know what to do at trick 2? Probably best is to play the club queen at trick 2. North should realize what is going on, and play an encouraging card so that south won't switch back to diamonds. After three rounds of clubs and a major suit switch west will never make 9 tricks.

 

 

One more comment: north lead the ♦7. I think it is much better to lead the lowest diamond, so that south can get the count right (unless you have agreed to lead the 2nd highest from 3 of course, which is not standard in the US). I would only lead a high card if I had supported diamonds, so that partner already knows I don't have a doubleton. I think that this is quite important, but unfortunately I didn't have time to point out these things at the table.

[Trumpace]

As was pointed out, declarer can make 9 tricks after the diamond ace is played. But perhaps north has lead a stiff diamond and wants a ruff, how would south know what to do at trick 2? Probably best is to play the club queen at trick 2. North should realize what is going on, and play an encouraging card so that south won't switch back to diamonds. After three rounds of clubs and a major suit switch west will never make 9 tricks.

I was south in this hand and I wondered if partner was angling for a ruff.

 

I was pretty sure partner didn't have a third diamond (given the pass after my free 2D bid {i guess 2D is very questionable})

 

My general plan was to cash the ♦A, cash the club K, getting a count from partner then figure out what to do..

 

Alas, the A was ruffed and declarer had 9 tricks.

After the ♦A, declarer drew two rounds of trump, partner showing out.

 

Hannie at this juncture asked me to guess the distribution of declarer. 6-3-1-4 was my first guess :-) (Yes, i need more lessons!)

 

 

It was fun. I am looking forward for more.

 

Thanks JB and Hannie.

[inquiry]

This was interesting to watch, and varied between beginner to advanced intermediate in the level of discussion. One thing I found interesting was that the hands were jsut randomly dealt main room hands, not lesson hands in a teaching table the instructor had prepared content (and comments). A Brave move by hannie.

 

There were some flubs.. auctions were opener started 1♠ and then later rebid 3♥ after responder raised to 2♠. When asked the opener's distribution, every one guessed 5-4 or 5-5... no one considered opener might have 6♠, no one considered that opener might have only 3♥ (help suit). Opener was 6-4. And the predictable guesses where people could have 14 cards or only 12. But for the most part, the guesses were reasonable. But instead of having Hannie drag the info out of the players when he felt like it, I think maybe they should have been saying whatever thoughts came to their mind via private chat to kibitzers. There would have been more help to the ones way off base if we had known what they were thinking, or not thinking. Some very obvious conclusions were missed, or at least not discussed. And there was very little "counting of hcp" in the discussion and guesses at waht partner might hold on defense.. the emphasis was on "what declearer" had."

 

Take the hand shown above. It is a very good thought for South to think north has only two diamonds or less. Why? Because he knows that north has at most one spade, since surely WEST has at least six.

 

North, likewise should think his partner has at least a good six diamonds for his 2♦ rebid over EAST natural 1NT. So in fact, "he" should consider a raise 3♦, hearing his thoughts on the issue (vul versus non-vul might play a roll in not bidding, but that might should have kept south from bidding 2♦ on the actual hand) and a lead that will help his partner figure out what is going on in the ♦ suit.

[kenberg]

At the risk of beating a dying horse, I will add a couple of more comments.

 

I probably would also open the south hand 1D rather than 1NT. On the given layout, both bids lead to problems. On a 1NT opening it goes 1NT-(2S) and then what? W gets to pay 2S, I think. Even if N has a Lebensohl 2NT available, this seems like a stretch when red. On 1D-(1S)-P it seems to me that E might raise to 2S. South cannot be happy with all those points, but what are the options? On the given auction, 1D-(1S)-P-(1NT) even now it's not easy. I agree that 2D should be based on six, but is S really supposed to pass out 1NT? It makes with at least one overtrick. I, as W, would then have rebid (rightly or wrongly) 2S but then what?

 

I pose the question: What auction will get NS to 3D? South's 2D rebid should have but there appears to be a general dissing of that call. Looking at the traveller, 3D made whenever it was bid. Perhaps one of you folks with DF (I will buy it but haven't got around to it yet) can check to see if it should. I think so, but there are several options in play and defense.

 

As an aside, I have tried to explain to myself how I missed the clearcut play for 9 tricks (once the second diamond was led). I played the ten of spades on the second diamond and was so relieved when it was not overtrumped I think I just forgot that after the J fell under the ace the 9 on the table was now good. Lesson that I never seem to really master: Stay cool.

 

K

 

I would be happy if someone brought up another hand that was played.