What is your approach?

[Walddk]

[hv=d=s&v=b&s=shq87642d10ca108743]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Pretend that you are playing in the Scottish trials (women). First in hand, and you pass. LHO passes, and partner opens 1♣ (4+). RHO overcalls 1♠. You?

 

At some stage I will tell you about what actually happened at the table. This hand was quite significant (appeal pending regarding this very board, by the way).

 

Roland

[whereagles]

4♥. Not sure what pard is going to make of this, but I have a second string attached to my bow (read, 5♣).

[Gerben42]

If 3♥ shows ♥ + ♣ I bid that, if not I just bid 2♥, I know it's boring.

[Chamaco]

I bid 5C if pard's 1C guarantees 4+ cards.

 

We have a sure fit, it's IMPS, I won't look for hearts. I think it's more important to shut opps off and/or make them guess.

[joker_gib]

Wild one ! :)

 

Maybe 4♥ has a play but I'll put the maximum pressure with the 5♣ bid.

 

4♥ does not remove bidding space as it lets 4♠ and 4NT available. ;)

 

Alain

[joker_gib]

And I can't bid 4♥ as it is not in the voting possibilities ! ;) :)

[P_Marlowe]

5C, game try, old joke, but I wont sell this hand

to partner, we have a 6-4 fit, 5C should have

some play.

 

Scottish and clubs showing +4 => Do they play Acol,

i.e. weak NT?

Maybe that will have some significance here.

 

Marlowe

[Walddk]

And I can't bid 4♥ as it is not in the voting possibilities ! ;) :)

Blame it on me, but I think it's wrong to bid any number of hearts. However, I should have given you the option. Sorry.

 

Roland

[Walddk]

Scottish and clubs showing +4 => Do they play Acol,

i.e. weak NT, maybe significant for others.

 

Marlowe

14-16 NT.

 

Roland

[joker_gib]

And I can't bid 4♥ as it is not in the voting possibilities !  :) :D

Blame it on me, but I think it's wrong to bid any number of hearts. However, I should have given you the option. Sorry.

 

Roland

I think it's wrong too so no problem ! ;)

 

Alain

[inquiry]

4♠ - exclusion blackwood appeals to me, except that two keycards outside of spades will carry us past 6♣ anyway. 2♠ and 3♠ don't help us, and I am going at least to 5♣. So from amongst the choices, 5♣ and 4♠ seem the only reasonable choices (a fit jump in ♥ here is not unattactive, but we will have to bid over there 4♠ "save" (can partner really have 6♣ and 5♠) anyway, so why let them know about their possible double fit? Besides if partner is 5-6 she will strong, as with 5-6 weak she might have preferred to open 1♠.

 

I guess I will bid 5♣, although 4♠ is a strong second choice.

[Walddk]

4♠ - exclusion blackwood appeals to me

Not that I disagree with 4♠ (I atually think it's the best available), but to me it would just show a void and not ask for anything. I think it's unsound if a passed hand starts asking for aces opposite the unlimited hand.

 

5♣ does not give partner a chance to evaluate if she has good or bad cards. 4♠ does.

 

Roland

[Gerben42]

4♠ is also an option but do you really think a Fit Showing Jump 3♥ is very here?

 

I've never played them after 1♣, but then I never play that 1♣ shows 4+♣ either. Now diamonds, that's a different story.

 

1♦*(1♠) 3♥ would be a fit jump for me.

* 4+♦

 

BTW, this 1♣ opening 4+♣ is alertable in Poland. You just gotta love them for that.

[Walddk]

4♠ is also an option but do you really think a Fit Showing Jump 3♥ is very here?

Yes, I would treat 3♥ as a fit jump, but I think it's wrong on this hand for two reasons:

 

1. LHO will get too much room to bid spades.

2. I don't like the quality of my hearts.

 

I am prepared to forget about hearts at IMPs when I know we have 10+ clubs between us. Besides, if LHO has a big support for spades (which seems likely), we won't buy it in 4♥ anyway.

 

Roland

[inquiry]

I think it's unsound if a passed hand starts asking for aces opposite the unlimited hand.

Well, I would not have passed this hand if first seat ( :-) ), but that is an entirely different kettle of fish. Hasn't Zar taught us anything (18 distributional points, 6 hcp, 2 control points = 26 ZAR points)? For Zarist, this is a minimum opening bid. And in support of clubs, you get to add quite a few more points (1 for the club ACE, and at least three for the void in spades, bringing total to at least 30 ZARS, and I think 33 ZAR's is closer to correct evaluation. Since I now have a hand worth more than a full level stronger than a minimum opening bid, I discount the thought that I am a limited "passed hand". I have a GREAT hand for partner.

[Walddk]

I have a GREAT hand for partner.

Indeed, and isn't that exactly what 4♠ (void) shows? It doesn't take an Einstein for partner to figure out that you are very likely to have a two-suiter, simply because two-suiters are more frequent than three-suiters.

 

Roland

[hrothgar]

I agree with other posters who dislike any kind of fit jump with this hand.

I don't believe that the Heart suit has sufficient texture to consider jumping to 3♥, much less 4♥.

 

At the same time, a 2♥ bid also isn't particularly attractive. Bidding 2♥ and then showing club support would suggest a stronger hand and better defense.

 

For better or worse, I think that we are obligated to make some kind of "pure" club raise. I agree with Roland that 4♠ is the most descriptive call.

 

I disagree that this would typically show a 2 suited hand... Ceterus paribus, 2 suiters are more common than three suiters. However, most partnership have many more ways to show two suited hand patterns which shifts the odds significantly.

[Winstonm]

I believe in bidding 2H here as well. The bidding on this hand is going to get sticky, and when the decisions get to a high level it is going to be important for partner to know about a double fit as to not overestimate his defensive potential.

 

If the bidding goes:

1C-1S-5C-P

P- X- P- 5S

X

 

Partner may well be overestimating his AKxx of hearts. But if the auction begins with: 1C-1S-2H-4S

P P 5C

 

Now as responder I can easily keep my big mouth shut as I've told my entire story and I have put partner in a better position to make a decision.

 

I also agree with hrothgar that 4S would tend to show more of a 3 suiter but my reasoning for this is that by its nature a splinter is a type of exclusion bid, emphasizing working cards in the other 3 suits. 4S could easily get partner to overestimate the value of KJx or KQx of diamonds. The auction has allowed us to bid both our suits - I think this is what we should do. After all, it could have gone 1C-4S-? Now we would all be wondering how to show the heart suit.

 

Winston

[pclayton]

I'll try 4♥. Since I didnt preempt in 1st chair, I'll have some flaw.

 

I expect it will be 4♠ on my left, pass, pass. Now I have an easy 5♣.

 

I disagree that its wrong to show hearts. While hearts may or not be an attractive strain, bidding hearts and showing strong support for clubs seems like a good way to involve partner in the auction at the 6 level: where this auction is undoubtedly going.

[Robert]

Hello everyone

 

I converted to the true faith right after reading Robson/Segals Competitive bidding book. Their 'two way' fit showing jumps are an awesome concept.

 

A passed hand 4H bid should show 'at least' 5-5 shape(the 4H bid should suggest

5-6 as a passed hand) so it gives a pretty good start to showing this hand. Partner will play me for 5(6?) hearts so this weak six bagger should meet with his approval.

 

Playing fit showing jumps, cue bids tend to show 3 suiters, since the dogs 'did not bark.' If you had a two suiter, you would have made a fit showing jump. :rolleyes:

 

I am not sellilng out to 4Ss.

 

I also would 'not' have passed this hand in first seat. :)

 

I may have entered a womens event, but I am 6+ foot tall and 'not' anything near a slender build, so they must not have been too worried about taking my entry fee.

 

Regards,

Robert

[mikeh]

I had to think carefully here because the posted methods are unfamiliar to me: while I open 4 card majors in 3rd and 4th, I have a biddable suit requirement: thus with Jxxx Jxxx AK KQx I open 1♣ :rolleyes:

 

Having wrapped my mind around the assurance that we have a 10+ fit (and that partner is less likely than most to hold a 4 card major of either persuasion), I like 4♠. I am not so sure that this is a pure 2-suiter, but I did not splinter with 3♠, so the odds are high.

 

It is the most dramatic bid I can think of that is not completely unilateral, and so it carries the day for me, with my unusual hand.

 

A fit showing jump to 4♥, if available, is my second choice but I must confess I did not know of this gadget (and while it is a nice one to have, I doubt that I will ever have a need for it: these are not common scenarios).

 

A fit showing jump to 3♥ is less attractive: for me it would show a different type of hand, and so partner's next call will be less easy for me to interprete: her bid will be based on expectations of a more classical 3♥ bid.

[mike777]

3S

 

Want to leave some room for partner to take control.

Partner can bid 3nt to show duplicated values, 4d to rkc, etc.

Since we open with most big shape/2 suited hands 10 hcp hands I like 3s after my initial pass.

 

In fact I have denied a hand as good as:

void=AT9xxx=xxx=ATxx or

void=ATxx=xxx=AT9xxx

[Walddk]

Even if I had 4♥ available to show a 2-suiter (5-6 or 6-6), I wouldn't venture it with this anaemic heart suit. The important aspect for me is to make partner understand and evaluate how good her Jxx(x) or Axx(x) in spades are opposite a void.

 

Jxx(x) is great, Axx(x) is not.

 

In my opinion, a fit bid would only be appropriate if the side suit has concentrated values. With the heart suit here, AK with partner is gold, xx is not. How is partner to know if I made a fit bid on Qxxxxx or Axxxx/AKxxx/AQxxx?

 

Roland

[han]

I agree with Roland that 4S stands out, and that this is a showing bid and not an asking bid. This is the most descriptive bid and highly preemptive as well, almost perfect!

 

Make the hearts a little better and I would make a support jump shift. But then, make the hearts a little better and I would have opened.

[Winstonm]

I agree with Roland that 4S stands out, and that this is a showing bid and not an asking bid. This is the most descriptive bid and highly preemptive as well, almost perfect!

 

Make the hearts a little better and I would make a support jump shift. But then, make the hearts a little better and I would have opened.

This seems contradictory; better hearts would open, but 4H shows better hearts.

Seems to me if 4H is a fit-showing jump with 6H and a big club fit, it surely would be weakish hearts else the hand would have opened.

 

Although 4S allows partner to judge the value of Axx and Jxx, it doesn't do anything for him to evaluate this:

 

QJx, AKx, xxxx, Kxxx.

 

But then I have stong views on splinter bids; IMO, splinter bids at the 4-level should be "picture" bids as they consume so much room - more so when it is in "suit under" as in 1S-4H. A splinter is an extension of a SSGT, or the other way around, and as such should ask for help in ALL the excluded suits or at a minimum the other two suits except trumps.

 

Kxxx, x, AKQ10xx, Kx verses Kxxx, x, KJ9x, AKxx.

 

If I splinter and consume all that room with both these hands, how is partner to know that with the first hand, AQJxx, AKx, xx, xxx is plenty in a diamond slam yet pretty well worthless opposite the second unless the splinter is precise? If the splinter is precise, he can now see that this hand is worth a try: AQJxx, Jxx, Ax, Qxx.

 

Winston