Another of those 5-level decisions

[whereagles]

IMPs, none vuln, adv opps, you hold:

 

♠ QTxx

♥ AQT8x

♦ AQx

♣ A

 

RHO you LHO pard

3♣ . dbl . 5♣ . dbl

pass ..?

 

Your bid?

[Gerben42]

Looks like a pass to me. 5-level belongs to them except on special hands. This ain't one of them.

 

Since you posted this I am sure this is unsuccessful.

[mikeh]

With what some opps bid on these days, pass and lead the ♣A. Especially against less than strong opps, LHO may feel that he can bounce to 5♣ based on a fit, rather than on good shape. Thus some opps will raise to 5♣ on almost any 3 card support. We could easily get them for 800-1100 here, and we will not find our grand even if it exists.

 

If I were going to bid, it would be 6♣, correcting 6♦ to 6♥ to show (I hope) this sort of shape. (However, if partner thinks I am showing a massive one-suiter in ♥ with grand interest, I am going to be ill when he passes or raises 6♥ with AKxx xx KJxxx xx) This possibility of misunderstanding is one other, non-trivial, reason for taking the plus.

[Kalvan14]

My t/o double was not promising such richnesses (with this shape, I've the A♣ and possibly a Q more than what I promised); and if pard's double is based on clubs, my oppos are too smart for me (and pard too dumb :ph34r: ).

6♣: pick a slam (correcting 6♦ to 6♥). They may have shut me out of a grand, but at least the small slam is there

[luke warm]

i'd bid 6♣ also, but i must be missing something simple... mikeh and kalvan both said they'd correct 6♦ to 6♥, but i'm not sure why... what am i missing?

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

 

Partners double showed some values.

If you get them for 800, you dont loose much

if we have a small slam around 980 (?!),

i.e -180 and this assumes slam makes

and you find the right one.

 

Marlowe

[joker_gib]

Pass.

 

Partners double showed some values.

If you get them for 800, you dont loose much

if we have a small slam around 980 (?!),

i.e -180 and this assumes slam makes

and you find the right one.

 

Marlowe

Find the right one and make it ! ;)

 

I agree, take the money and run : PASS

 

Alain

[Winstonm]

I have learned through a long and sordid history of poor results that when the oppnents offer you a sizeable penalty you should accept thier gracious offer and not quibble over an extra 300 points here 500 there - those extra points are usually an illusion created by my own warped fantasy of what partner may hold.

 

Pass.

 

Winston

[mikeh]

i'd bid 6♣ also, but i must be missing something simple... mikeh and kalvan both said they'd correct 6♦ to 6♥, but i'm not sure why... what am i missing?

Because if partner has some 4432 shape: 4=3=4=2 or 3=4=4=2, he will bid 6♦ over 6♣, and we will be in a silly spot. If he holds 3=3=5=2, 6♦ will be ok, but 6♥ is likely to be just as good and scores better. If he has a 6 card ♦ suit, he may well have chosen 5♦ rather than double.

 

But, as I posted, my concern would be that with say 4=2=5=2, he may misread my sequence as showing a big ♥ suit rather than 2 places to play, so I am now thinking that maybe if I bid, 5N is better, since 5N is pick a slam and when I pull 6♦ I must definitely have ♠ as well. I think I was blinded earlier by thoughts of grand.

 

Having said all of that, I still pass and lead a trump

[pclayton]

The 'expert' call on this is pass, but I think its reasonable to play pard for three of the 4 missing key cards (♠AK, ♥A, ♦K) and try 6♣. Pull 6♦ to 6♥.

 

5N is possible too, but lets show the club control to set up a possible forcing pass over 7♣.

[Al_U_Card]

Preempts work. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Pard said defend so let's. He may have Hxx in C and a dbltn H. You have control of trumps so I will go against the expert advice (sorry Mikeh) and lead a low S.

[Guest Jlall]

pass, though red/white I'd probably go for it with 6C. This is a very good vulnerability to pass and I echo Mike's concern about finding the right fit.

[Kalvan14]

i'd bid 6♣ also, but i must be missing something simple... mikeh and kalvan both said they'd correct 6♦ to 6♥, but i'm not sure why... what am i missing?

Mike said most of it, but I disagree with 6♣ - 6♦ - 6♥ showing a big hearts suit. In this case, I'd bid 6♥ right now, thank you very much. 6♣ must be to play in at least 2 spots.

[HeartA]

i'd bid 6♣ also, but i must be missing something simple... mikeh and kalvan both said they'd correct 6♦ to 6♥, but i'm not sure why... what am i missing?

I also vote for 6♣. 5NT is another choice.

[whereagles]

if pard's double is based on clubs

You have agreed that "doubles are for take-out until a fit is established". Take-out doesn't mean you always have 4441, but sure have points.

 

In any case common sense applies, so the higher you are, the more often take-out doubles are left in for lack of a better option, and pard knows that.

[Fluffy]

I don't have enough extras for 6, 5♥

[Kalvan14]

if pard's double is based on clubs

You have agreed that "doubles are for take-out until a fit is established". Take-out doesn't mean you always have 4441, but sure have points.

 

In any case common sense applies, so the higher you are, the more often take-out doubles are left in for lack of a better option, and pard knows that.

:rolleyes: I said "if pard's double is based on clubs, ....pard is too dumb"

[whereagles]

Thx all. Hands were[hv=d=e&v=n&n=sj98xxhkjxdkxxcqx&w=saxh9xxxxdxxcxxxx&e=skxhdjxxxxckjtxxx&s=sqtxxhaqt8xdaqxca]399|300|Scoring: IMP

Full auction:

3♣ . dbl 5♣ dbl

pass 6♥ (all pass)[/hv]

6♥ was 1 down. The right bid was a bread-and-butter 5♥, but that was perhaps too hard to guess.

 

The auction was reproduced at the other table, so no swing :(

[Gerben42]

Unlucky to find ♥ 5 - 0 for my 5♣ doubled. Anyway, still two down if declarer misguesses trumps. However to bid 6♠ and find that opponents have 2 tricks was hardly surprising IMHO. BTW, 5♥ does not survive a 3 - 1 ♠ break.

[han]

The 'expert' call on this is pass, but I think its reasonable to play pard for three of the 4 missing key cards (♠AK, ♥A, ♦K) and try 6♣. Pull 6♦ to 6♥.

 

5N is possible too, but lets show the club control to set up a possible forcing pass over 7♣.

You got to be kidding Phil, any call sets up a forcing pass! No way are they ever going to play undoubled after this start of the auction.

 

 

I agree with pass and 6C 2nd choice (including pulling 6D to 6H).

[han]

I think that partner overbid

[Fluffy]

I think I was unlucky not to make 5♥

[beatrix45]

:P Why can't the opponents leave my auction alone! We could easily have six, or be down one at the five level when the opponents are -500 in clubs. I can't say I feel very strongly about 5♥ versus a pass. Commiting to the six level is WAY too rich for my blood.

 

Have to bid 5♥ anyway. It figures to make opposite two useful cards in partner's hand plus the fact that, given the bidding, any finesses should be 2 to 1 to be onside. Also, given my club ace and the bidding, the odds of pard having club tricks is minimal.

 

P.S. Reviewed thread and see that 5♥ was the winner (very small gloat), but on the actual hand, why didn't pard correct to 5♠? Did she think I was doubling 3♣ based on my (world famous) good looks alone, or because I could play in more than one suit?

[Guest Jlall]

Unlucky to find ♥ 5 - 0 for my 5♣ doubled. Anyway, still two down if declarer misguesses trumps. However to bid 6♠ and find that opponents have 2 tricks was hardly surprising IMHO. BTW, 5♥ does not survive a 3 - 1 ♠ break.

5H also does not survive a 5-0 heart split.

 

I'm not sure about your analysis whereagles, how do you propose to make 5H? club lead, you lead a spade, they win and lead another club and you ruff... and lose 2 spades and a heart at best.

[whereagles]

yes, you're right